France The French Collection

[Chris Boonzaier]

What/where is Ormuz?

[eitze]

Hello Eitze,

The correct order for the Overseas Medal bars would normally be (bottom to top) :

Tchad - Liban - Za?re - Ormuz - Cambodge

... but even the French don't care all that much about it

Cheers,

Hendrik

So only 2 wrong mounted - that`s a good share I think

Greetings

eitze

[Hendrik]

What/where is Ormuz?

Hello Chris,

Ormuz, aka the Strait of Ormuz, lies between the Gulf of Oman and the Persian Gulf and is strategically important because a fair amount of the world's oil has to ship through it.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Christophe]

Hendrik,

The Strait of Ormuz passage is shared between Iran and Oman. The Omani part is a very nice mountaineous landscape.

Am I wrong (I write this from memory, and could be wrong) if I say that the Ormuz bar was awarded to participants of the 1st Gulf War (1990-1991) against Irak. There was a fantasy "Saudi Arabia" bar for private purchase, but I think Ormuz was the correct and officially one awarded...

Ch.

[Hendrik]

... the Ormuz bar was awarded to participants of the 1st Gulf War (1990-1991) against Irak. There was a fantasy "Saudi Arabia" bar for private purchase, but I think Ormuz was the correct and officially one awarded...

Hello Christophe,

I don't think so : the Ormuz bar commemorates operations in the area between 1987 and 1990, i.e. just preceding the 1st Gulf War. The official bar for the 1st Gulf War is the "Moyen Orient" one as far as I know.

Cheers,

Hendrik

[attachmentid=37763] [attachmentid=37764]

[Christophe]

Thanks Hendrik.

Now, I'm more than sure you are right. I wrote this from memory... and you know what that's mean... And about "Arabie Saoudite", is it corect to say it was the first version (non-official) of the "Moyen-Orient" bar ? Maybe am I wrong again... I think I have a "Arabie Saoudite" bar somewhere...

Cheers.

Ch.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Thanks Hendrik.

Now, I'm more than sure you are right. I wrote this from memory... and you know what that's mean... And about "Arabie Saoudite", is it corect to say it was the first version (non-official) of the "Moyen-Orient" bar ? Maybe am I wrong again... I think I have a "Arabie Saoudite" bar somewhere...

Cheers.

Ch.

I have the "Moyen-Orient" bar on mine for Daguet.

[Ed_Haynes]

Will ignore -- I surrender! -- the clumsy terminological problems with Gulf War I, II, and III. I give up!!!!!!!!!!

Ormuz = Hormuz. As in "the Strait of . . . ". For Gulf War I (oh, I was not going to re-open THAT . . .).

[Christophe]

Will ignore -- I surrender! -- the clumsy terminological problems with Gulf War I, II, and III. I give up!!!!!!!!!!

Ormuz = Hormuz. As in "the Strait of . . . ". For Gulf War I (oh, I was not going to re-open THAT . . .).

Normally, if I remember well, Gulf War 1 was the one between Iran and Irak, that ended in 1989.

Gulf War 2 was between Irak and the Allied Forces (1990-91).

Guilf War 3 was between Irak and mainly the US (2003).

Ch.

Edited May 4, 2006 by Christophe

[Ed_Haynes]

Normally, if I remember well, Gulf War 1 was the one between Iran and Irak, that ended in 1989.

Gulf War 2 was between Irak and the Allied Forces (1990-91).

Guilf War 3 was between Irak and mainly the US (1994).

Ch.

Well done, Christophe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I - 1979-89

II - 1990-91

III - 1994----

You win this quiz. Many others flunk.

[Christophe]

Ed, I went too fast and made a typing mistake : 2003, and not 1994 !!!

So, I'm not the real winner .

Your turn, now ?

Ch.

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed, I went too fast and made a typing mistake : 2003, and not 1994 !!!

So, I'm not the real winner .

Your turn, now ?

Ch.

Oops, me too, unless you count the sanctions . . . . End of semester, brain shut down . . . .

Moreover, let me drag out and post the revenant French medals for the various GWs (Gulf Wars, that is).

Edited May 4, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Christophe]

and .

Ch.

[Hendrik]

... about "Arabie Saoudite", is it corect to say it was the first version (non-official) of the "Moyen-Orient" bar ?

Hello Christophe,

I've never understood where this non-official bar came from or what it was intended for. In fact, I've never fully grasped why any medal recipient would want unofficial bars on his official medal ! The service it refers to would in most cases be amply recognized by an official clasp. By way of example : the number of unofficial bars for the M?daille Coloniale far exceeds the number of official ones

Was this just some medal manufacturer's idea of trying to make more money by offering these for sale or is there another reason ? Any ideas ?

Here's one other version for (H)Ormuz It's supposed to belong to the M?daille Coloniale and not the M?daille d'Outre Mer !!!

[attachmentid=37881]

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Christophe]

Hi Hendrik,

I have checked about the Ormuz and Moyen-Orient bars.

The Ormuz one has been awarded from 30 July 1987 to 1st July 1990, by a decision dated 21st December 1987.

The Moyen-Orient one has been awarded from 2 August 1990, by a decision dated 20 December 1990. That means that there have been close to 5 months before the Moyen-Orient one has been instituted.

Therefore, I really hope I am not wrong , but I remember having seen the unofficial "Arabie Saoudite" one created meanwhile, for military people who were in the Gulf diuring this period fo 5 months. Of course, the creation of the official one has cancelled the "fantasy" one. Again, I think I have a "Arabie Saoudite" bar somewhere... Iw ill post here, if I can put my hand on it.

Cheers.

Ch.

[Hendrik]

... there have been close to 5 months before the Moyen-Orient one has been instituted.

Therefore, I really hope I am not wrong , but I remember having seen the unofficial "Arabie Saoudite" one created meanwhile, for military people who were in the Gulf diuring this period fo 5 months.

Hello Christophe,

You're quite likely right in this. In any case, I too recall seeing the "Arabie Saoudite" clasp before the "Moyen-Orient" one appeared.

On the subject of M?daille d'Outre Mer bars, have you ever seen the "R?publique D?mocratique du Congo" one for operations between 2 June and 26 September 2003 ? I'm still looking for that one for my collection !

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Christophe]

Hi Hendrik,

Frankly, no, I have never seen it (even in wear... as far as I remember). But a new mint one must be easy to buy in Palais Royal shops or even maybe at the Monnaie de Paris.

In fact, I stopped collecting French medals many years ago, when I switched to Soviet Union (in 1992). But, I seriously think I will go back to it , thanks to threads, Forums and websites like yours .

Cheers.

Ch.

[Hendrik]

... a new mint one must be easy to buy in Palais Royal shops or even maybe at the Monnaie de Paris.

In fact, I stopped collecting French medals many years ago, when I switched to Soviet Union (in 1992). But, I seriously think I will go back to it , thanks to threads, Forums and websites like yours

Hello Christophe,

Good ideas both !

I'll be in Paris end of this month and will pay a visit to the Palais Royal shops then ... You'll find prices have gone up a bit since 1992 where French ODM's are concerned but generally the level is still acceptable and I found I just can't stay away from them

Cheers,

Hendrik

[Christophe]

Hendrik,

Let me know precisely when you will be in Paris. If both of us have time enough, I'd be delighted to share a beer with you in the Caf? de la Com?die Fran?aise...

About prices. I have already bought a few nice pieces these last weeks, and to be frank, prices are still very reasonable, specially for the most common pieces. The problem I have met is that there are less medals for sale in "normal" flea markets than 10-15 years ago. At that time, you could find a lot of them in all stands of the "Puces" ... Now, you probably have to visit specialised dealers.

Cheers.

Ch.

[Hendrik]

I'd be delighted to share a beer with you in the Caf? de la Com?die Fran?aise...

About prices... Now, you probably have to visit specialised dealers.

Same here and always happy to explore a new watering hole I'll send you a PM on that later ...

Prices : quite right and the same goes for medal purchases here in Belgium. Nothing to be found at flea markets, only at militaria sales and with specialised dealers. My remark on the general rise in prices is based on what I've encountered at the Rungis (formerly Baltard) militaria show in past years. Hopefully (and my wallet agrees with that completely), the present level will stay with us for a while

Hendrik

[Christophe]

Same here and always happy to explore a new watering hole I'll send you a PM on that later ...

(...) the present level will stay with us for a while

Hendrik

2 good news!!!!

Ch.

[Vatjan]

Well, it was already posted elsewhere, but it seems more appropriate to do it here:

Close-up of the Collar of the Grand Master of the Ordre de la Lib?ration

Edited May 7, 2006 by vatjan

[Ed_Haynes]

Here it is, I knew it was somewhere about:

[Ed_Haynes]

And . . . since it was in the same place . . . the French medal for the 1956 British-French-Israeli invasion of Egypt -- M?daille d?Orient: ?Moyen-Orient? 1956.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Christophe]

Here it is, I knew it was somewhere about:

Ed, congrats!!!!!

Ch.