love4history Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Hello gents Just acquired a group to a Belgian diplomat with a number of foreign awards. One of them is this Order of the White Rose. I could use some help to determine the degree of the award and the time period (if at all possible?). Thanks for the help Best regards l4h Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
922F Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Commander grade most likely [if there's a star with it then First Class Commander]...send image of hall marks as these may help determine period. Probably inter World Wars issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love4history Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 I can distinguish two: a crown and a second symbol that looks like : | : | or are the two dots the numeral 8 or 3? Hard to tell if you have no idea what they might be. WIll try to make close-ups of the hallmarks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanH Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 The Hallmark 813H is often seen on finnish silver. The year stamp should be a letter followed by a number. You could try to contact the office of the order and ask if they can look in the archives for your guy. Email: info(at)ritarikunnat.fi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love4history Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 Thank you. Here's a picture of the gentleman with what I think is his White Rose Order in wear (among others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalkanCollector Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Most interesting! Thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanH Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Here is a table showing the Numbers of white rose orders awarded to foreigners (non finnish) between 1919-1944. Stk med kedja = grand cross with collar Stk = grand cross K1 = commander 1st class K = commander R1 = knight 1st class R = knight tecknet i silver = award of merit sammanlagt = total since you don’t seem to have a breast star, I guess it is a commander class you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love4history Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 Thank you JohanH! In his paperwork I have found one letter addressed to him as consul in Helsingfjors in 1925. I guess the award will have been made around that time. (this also coincides with a peak in the awards as visible in the table you provided). Going to write to the email-address you provided to see if they have more details. Details on the maker marks posted later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love4history Posted August 10, 2019 Author Share Posted August 10, 2019 Here's an attempt to show the MM. Besides the crown and the 813H I don't see a "yearmark". Have written to the secretariat to ask for more info. If they come up with something I'll let you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christerd Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) Hi , I have the names and dates for all Finnish awarded 1919-1936 ( 1st type) that is 230 names , (Forgot to write that the numbers is for Commander 1st class.) Commander is more often awarded of course) During the same time 477 was awarded to foreigners , so twice as many outside Finland. Will look if I can find something online Here is something about the Order in English https://www.ritarikunnat.fi/images/flipbook/guide/mobile/index.html#p=39 All the best from Sweden Christer Edited August 18, 2020 by christerd new info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuka f Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Intresting post. Nice medal. Congrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanH Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 20 hours ago, christerd said: Hi , I have the names and dates for all Finnish awarded 1919-1936 ( 1st type) that is 230 names , (Forgot to write that the numbers is for Commander 1st class.) Commander is more often awarded of course) During the same time 477 was awarded to foreigners , so twice as many outside Finland. Will look if I can find something online Here is something about the Order in English https://www.ritarikunnat.fi/images/flipbook/guide/mobile/index.html#p=39 All the best from Sweden Christer Hi Christer! Do you have the name of any americans who recieved the 1st class commander cross and star during 1919-1925? Is you list published and available anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalkanCollector Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 (edited) On 07/08/2019 at 11:10, JohanH said: The Hallmark 813H is often seen on finnish silver. The year stamp should be a letter followed by a number. I got this Knight and it seems to have 813H hallmark on the ring and also AT hallmark if I'm reading it right. Is it possible to tell the year or anything more by those hallmarks? Edited November 9, 2020 by BalkanCollector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Dane Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 AT is for the manufacturer (Tillander) and 813H is for silver. Are there any other hallmarks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanH Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 The earliest crosses (1919-1921) was made by Viktor Lindmann and was maker marked V.L. and was after 1921 made by Tillander, A.T. In 1923 the lions was made larger than before and in 1929 the dimensions of the cross was increased to 40x40mm. In 1936 there was a official change that introduced the rosette on knight 1st class. The change in 1941 was only affected to the breast stars and the 1963 change affected the grand collar (replaced swastikas with spruce). The silverstamp 813H was used between 1895-1972. So we can know for sure that your cross is from before 1972. My personal guess would be 1950-1960s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalkanCollector Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Thank you both for your quick answers! After further inspection, I've found another hallmark which was hiding under the connection ring. It appears to be a crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohanH Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 The crown is the Finnish control stamp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BalkanCollector Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Thank you once again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
love4history Posted December 6, 2020 Author Share Posted December 6, 2020 Hello gents Long-time over due of course but for completeness and if anybody is interested: both from Finnish and Belgian sources I was informed that the man was awarded Commander of the Order of the White Rose of Finland on June 19th 1929. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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