Finland Order of the White Rose to Belgian diplomat

[love4history]

Hello gents

Just acquired a group to a Belgian diplomat with a number of foreign awards. One of them is this Order of the White Rose. I could use some help to determine the degree of the award and the time period (if at all possible?).

Thanks for the help

Best regards

l4h

[922F]

Commander grade most likely [if there's a star with it then First Class Commander]...send image of hall marks as these may help determine period.   Probably inter World Wars issue.

[love4history]

I can distinguish two: a crown and a second symbol that looks like : | : |   or are the two dots the numeral 8 or 3? Hard to tell if you have no idea what they might be. WIll try to make close-ups of the hallmarks

[JohanH]

The Hallmark 813H is often seen on finnish silver. The year stamp should be a letter followed by a number. 

 

You could try to contact the office of the order and ask if they can look in the archives for your guy. 

Email: info(at)ritarikunnat.fi

[love4history]

Thank you. Here's a picture of the gentleman with what I think is his White Rose Order in wear (among others)

 

 

[BalkanCollector]

Most interesting! Thanks for sharing!

[JohanH]

Here is a table showing the Numbers of white rose orders awarded to foreigners (non finnish) between 1919-1944. 

Stk med kedja = grand cross with collar

Stk = grand cross

K1 = commander 1st class

K = commander

R1 = knight 1st class

R = knight

tecknet i silver = award of merit

sammanlagt = total 

 

since you don’t seem to have a breast star, I guess it is a commander class you have.

[love4history]

Thank you JohanH!

In his paperwork I have found one letter addressed to him as consul in Helsingfjors in 1925. I guess the award will have been made around that time. (this also coincides with a peak in the awards as visible in the table you provided). Going to write to the email-address you provided to see if they have more details.

Details on the maker marks posted later today.

[love4history]

Here's an attempt to show the MM. Besides the crown and the 813H I don't see a "yearmark". Have written to the secretariat to ask for more info. If they come up with something I'll let you know!

 

[christerd]

Hi , 

I have the names and dates for all Finnish awarded 1919-1936  ( 1st type)  that is 230 names , (Forgot to write that the numbers is for Commander 1st class.)

Commander is more often awarded of course)

 

During the same time 477 was awarded to foreigners , so twice as many outside Finland.

Will look if I can find something online 

 

Here is something about the Order in English 

https://www.ritarikunnat.fi/images/flipbook/guide/mobile/index.html#p=39

 

All the best from Sweden

 

Christer

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2020 by christerd
new info

[Stuka f]

Intresting post.

Nice medal. Congrats.

[JohanH]

20 hours ago, christerd said:

Hi , 

I have the names and dates for all Finnish awarded 1919-1936  ( 1st type)  that is 230 names , (Forgot to write that the numbers is for Commander 1st class.)

Commander is more often awarded of course)

 

During the same time 477 was awarded to foreigners , so twice as many outside Finland.

Will look if I can find something online 

 

Here is something about the Order in English 

https://www.ritarikunnat.fi/images/flipbook/guide/mobile/index.html#p=39

 

All the best from Sweden

 

Christer

 

 

 

Hi Christer!

Do you have the name of any americans who recieved the 1st class commander cross and star during 1919-1925?

Is you list published and available anywhere? 

[BalkanCollector]

On 07/08/2019 at 11:10, JohanH said:

The Hallmark 813H is often seen on finnish silver. The year stamp should be a letter followed by a number.

I got this Knight and it seems to have 813H hallmark on the ring and also AT hallmark if I'm reading it right. Is it possible to tell the year or anything more by those hallmarks?

 

 

Edited November 9, 2020 by BalkanCollector

[Great Dane]

AT is for the manufacturer (Tillander) and 813H is for silver.

Are there any other hallmarks?

[JohanH]

The earliest crosses (1919-1921) was made by Viktor Lindmann and was maker marked V.L. and was after 1921 made by Tillander, A.T.
In 1923 the lions was made larger than before and in 1929 the dimensions of the cross was increased to 40x40mm. 

In 1936 there was a official change that introduced the rosette on knight 1st class. 
The change in 1941 was only affected to the breast stars and the 1963 change affected the grand collar (replaced swastikas with spruce). 

 

The silverstamp 813H was used between 1895-1972. So we can know for sure that your cross is from before 1972.

My personal guess would be 1950-1960s.

[BalkanCollector]

Thank you both for your quick answers! 

After further inspection, I've found another hallmark which was hiding under the connection ring. It appears to be a crown.

 

[JohanH]

The crown is the Finnish control stamp

[BalkanCollector]

Thank you once again!

[love4history]

Hello gents

Long-time over due of course but for completeness and if anybody is interested: both from Finnish and Belgian sources I was informed that the man was awarded Commander of the Order of the White Rose of Finland on June 19th 1929.

 

Cheers