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ixhs

unknown pilot - where are the aviation guys?

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Posted (edited)

Hi everybody!

Got this nice and rarer photo.

It shows a prussian pilot (i think with wuerttemberg roots or a wuerttemberg guy in a prussian regiment) with the

wuerttemberg golden bravery medal - the pic was taken on his award`s day (he wrote it on the back)

unfortunately no date. The special thing about it is, that he did not get the IC 1st class bevor he was awarded with the GMMM.

Those pics are not easy to find.

Is there a chance to ID that guy for noticeing it in my photobook?

Thank you very much.

 

mvm1.jpg

Edited by ixhs

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Hi ixhs,

he is wearing an observer badge. 😉

Kind regards

Andreas

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Hello ,Between 1911 and 1913 Wurttembergian Officers and Troops were assignated to serve into Prussian Aerostatic and Aeronautical units .

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Can we see the inscription? You sure it's the GMMM, and not a silver?

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Lieutenants typically received either the Golden Military Merit Medal or the Knight 2nd Class with Swords of the Friedrichs-Orden as their first wartime award, so the lack of an EK1 is not surprising. Following Württemberg practice, many of these would later be returned if the officer received a higher decoration such as the Military Merit Order. 

It's possible that it was a silver medal awarded before he was commissioned, but given the large number of gold medals to officers, and given that he is wearing the full medal while only the EK2 ribbon is being worn, a gold seems more likely.

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Dave is right.

Odd enough, the Golden Medal ranked ABOVE the Friedrich knight 2nd class and thats why the Medal could be awarded to Lts and 1st Lts.

It happened, that a guy received the Friedrich knight 2nd class with swords and had to return it as he did get the golden MMM afterwards. ...and to make it even more complicated, he could in this case be awarded the Friedrich a second time.

 

Best,

Daniel

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And then you have a guy like Ludwig Schmidt of IR 120. He received the Gold MVM on 1.11.1914 as a Leutnant in Brigade-Ersatz-Bataillon 54. He was promoted to Oberleutnant on 24.12.1914 and Hauptmann on 5.10.1916.  He received the Knight 1st Class with Swords of the Friedrichs-Orden in place of his Gold MVM on 20.2.1917, and he received the Military Merit Order in place of his Friedrichs-Orden on 22.7.1917. So three times decorated, with only one decoration to show for it. And then he received another award of the Friedrich Knight 1st Class on 24.4.1918. This time he kept the earlier award. So four times decorated, with two to show for it.

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Hi i`m doing research on the wuertt. golden MMM (gMMM or MVM1) since a couple of years. In my opinion (and what i saw)  the most Subalternoffiziere (Lt./Olt., not Feldwebelleutnants because no officer´s patent) were awarded with the FO2X bevor the got the golden MMM - but not in every times.  And there are some guys with "only" the IC2nd class + golden MMM - or only a few (the sources are not complete!) at the beginning of war with "only" a golden MMM (in this time the procedure was divided) The gMMM had a higher rank as the FO2X  so normally it had to return to Königliches Münzamt (K.M.). but i know a few cases, in which

FO2X and gMMM (if it was an officier and he later won the MMO (MVO) was left in recipient`s hands for memory (?) or if he died in families hands. I have a bar with an early  FO2X and gMMM (i showed it at GMIC a few months ago).

Also the gMMM was given to ranks over a Subalternoffizier for example "Rittmeister" (= Hauptmann/captain)  - but i only knew  a few recipients. The most officers did earn the MMO (MVO) between the war  and in the 1930s they got his honorable sold for it, as the NCO and EM did get it for earning the gMMM.

The problem for ID a (may be later)  pilot/"air guy"  is also, that "Moser" not always shows the actually troop part of the recipients. Only M 709 at Staatsarchiv Stuttgart  shows ~1/3 of the recipients  mostly with pics, that could help for ID a guy. 

(several times i had luck for ID a pic!)

Best

Joe

 

 

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