Guard NCO with unidentified foreign breast insignia

[jaeger7]

Hello,

I guess I havn't shown this guy here already...

...so I would like to give it a try !

What is this senior NCO (etatmäßiger Feldwebel) of the Garde Jäger Bataillon wearing ? It looks like a crowned royal cypher ?

He is wearing a double-award of the Kaiserabzeichen on his right sleeve, so he could either be from the 4th company  (Award years 1902+03) or from 2nd Coy (1907+08).

The only information I can give is, that there are some more pictures out there with Guard NCOs wearing the same badge.

Who will identify it ?

Regards

jaeger7-de

 

 

[GreyC]

Like this one from my collection: Feldwebel of the 2. Kompanie of the Gardejäger Battailion in the Sommer of 1907. Would be interesting to know if other soldiers below the rank of (etatmäßiger) Feldwebel were eligible for this award.

GreyC

Edited November 7, 2019 by GreyC

[jaeger7]

Funny - I do have a picture of him as well...
Standing amoung the other Oberjäger of 2nd Coy - but he is the only one wearing the badge.

[GreyC]

Hi,

have you tried the SDA for information?

GreyC

[jaeger7]

Yes, no result...
...no one can identify this badge.

But a member showed another Etatmäßiger Feldwebel (Company Sergeant Major) from the 1. Garde-Regiment zu Fuß with this badge.

jaeger7-de

Edited November 9, 2019 by jaeger7

[GreyC]

So the questions are:

is it from a German state or is it from outside Germany?

As only Garde soldiers of the rank of Feldwebel are known as yet to have this badge, can we deduce something from this?  And if so, what?

Could they have been handed out as a reward for representational duties (Garde), eg as part of a Schlosswache or the like?

If it is of German origin, could it be a pin handed out by a sovereign of a German state?

GreyC

Edited November 9, 2019 by GreyC

[jaeger7]

There are only very few pictures known with this badge.

I do know 4 pictures. 3 from Garde Jäger and 1 from 1. GRzF.

These three persons are all CSM.

Would it be a German badge, someone would have recongnized it yet, I am sure !

 

[GreyC]

Do you have a time frame? My photo is summer 1907 on the day of the Kaiserschießpreis-Competition. And CSM is Etamäßiger Feldwebel?

GreyC

Edited November 9, 2019 by GreyC

[jaeger7]

My pictures must be from late 1908 earliest - as he wears the 1907 and 1908 Kaiserabzeichen.

I have no date for the 1.GRzF picture.

And yes CSM is the British term for Etatmäßiger Feldwebel.

I should have posted it in the Feldgrau-Forum - right D. ?

[GreyC]

I think it doesn´t really matter.

What would CSM´s of a Guard unit do or be responsible for that warrants such a rare award? I wonder if it is somebodies house order or the like?

GreyC

[Bayern]

Hello ,the breast insignia looks as a Royal Cypher a G and I behind topped with a crown and the crown is definitively not Prussian . 

7 minutes ago, Bayern said:

Hello ,the breast insignia looks as a Royal Cypher a G and I behind topped with a crown and the crown is definitively not Prussian . at least not the crown of William II

 

[The Prussian]

Hello!

Anyway I don´t believe in a "G". But if it is a "G", could it stand for Garde? Just a guess...

[GreyC]

Hi,

I´d go along with cypher, but I´d rather say "c" or maybe "e".

GreyC

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by GreyC

[The Prussian]

Hello!

In case of e, why was it written uncapitalized? That makes no sense to me

[VtwinVince]

Looks to me like an unofficial 'Geschenk' from a royal.

[GreyC]

Hi,

thanks for your input. I don´t think he´d be allowed to wear anything unofficial, be it royal or not on his uniform, though.

But as the specialists in the German medal forum can´t solve the question, it might be foreign, handed out during a visit, or it is from a German reigning aristocrat, celebrating a certain crown jubilee or marriage anniversary, and only certain soldiers of that state were elligble.

GreyC

Edited June 13, 2020 by GreyC

[Trooper_D]

I can't help but note the similarities between this mystery badge and the cypher of Carlos I of Portugal, as shown engraved on the detail from an image of a Luger pistol destined for Portugal, below.

I cannot give an explanation as to why this might be but I note that Kaiser Wilhelm visited Carlos in Portugal in 1905. Carlos was, of course, assassinated in 1908.

Source: https://www.phoenixinvestmentarms.com/2145KingCarlos00.html

[GreyC]

Hi,

thanks for providing this example. Both letters "c" look quite similar. Though there are discernable differences it is well worth looking into the Portuguese possibilities.

GreyC

[jaeger7]

Hello Trooper_D,

I did also notice the similarity to the Portugese Cyper !

Therefore I send a request to the Portugese Army Museum (which is a part of the armed forces) but did not even get a reply.

I will  try to work a bit more in this direction...

Regards

jaeger7

[The Prussian]

It could be Carlos, but the c looks different...

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Royal_Monogram_of_King_Carlos_I_of_Portugal.svg

Edited June 15, 2020 by The Prussian

[The Prussian]

Puch-up...

Any new ideas? I couldn´t find a proof it´s a badge from Carlos I

[ArHo]

On 17/08/2021 at 03:26, The Prussian said:

Puch-up...

Any new ideas? I couldn´t find a proof it´s a badge from Carlos I

Good morning,

while I sadly cannot provide any clue on the badge itself, the "C" in my opinion very stongly points to Carola von Wasa-Holstein-Gottorp, Queen of Saxony, as it was in almost the same form (compare the crown, too!) used by Husaren-Regiment 19 on their shoulder boards.

She died on 15th December 1907, after which, as I understand, the Regiment used the letter.

Info and picture from a pdf with all shoulder board Monograms of which I unfortunately don't know the author...

Greetings

[The Prussian]

Hello ArHo!

That looks very similar! With your permission I will show it in Feldgrau Forum.

[ArHo]

3 hours ago, The Prussian said:

Hello ArHo!

That looks very similar! With your permission I will show it in Feldgrau Forum.

Hi @The Prussian of course, you're welcome!

Like I wrote: Info and image from a freely available  internet PDF with title "Monogramme 1914-1918 (offiziell und inoffiziell)" and no mentioned author...

[The Prussian]

Thanks a lot, mate!!!!!!!