Char. Admiral Max von Grapow

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

Does anyone know why he is wearing the EK 2. (1914) like this? If it is the EK 2. in the first place? He retired on 18.09.1915, so it's quite possible he was awarded this decoration during WW1, can't be confirmed by the Rangliste though.

Thanks

[Paul C]

Maybe he did not want to redo his medal bar.

[Daniel Krause]

He's got even a Crown Order 1st class with swords as "retirement present", so for sure he received EK2 and EK1 before.

As Paul already said, most likely he did not upgrade his medal bar and decided to wear the EK2 separately in the buttonhole.

 

Best,

Daniel

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

1 hour ago, Daniel Krause said:

He's got even a Crown Order 1st class with swords as "retirement present", so for sure he received EK2 and EK1 before.

As Paul already said, most likely he did not upgrade his medal bar and decided to wear the EK2 separately in the buttonhole.

 

Best,

Daniel

What is your source for the Crown Order 1st Class with Swords?

[Daniel Krause]

Marine-Verordnungsblatt or Militär-Verordnungsblatt, published 22nd September 1915

 

Best,

Daniel

[Utgardloki]

I personally would also prefer to wear the EK2 in the buttonhole and not on the medalbar. That underlines its high symbolic value.

What do you guys think, was wearing it in the buttonhole only a transition period thing, until the medal bar was updated, or did some guys prefer to wear it that way without the intention to add it to the bar later?

[laurentius]

Perhaps I'm wrong but I believe I'm seeing a bit of a curve on the EK, I think it might actually be a first class.

1 hour ago, Utgardloki said:

What do you guys think, was wearing it in the buttonhole only a transition period thing, until the medal bar was updated, or did some guys prefer to wear it that way without the intention to add it to the bar later?

Rick Lundstrom always used to say that bars without iron crosses belonged to recipients with iron crosses and that iron crosses were only worn through the buttonhole on the day of the award. I tend to agree often, unless evidence suggests otherwise. When talking about wearing through the buttonhole one might think rather of the BMMJO or the GMVK. I don't believe there were any soldiers/officers who wore their EK2 through the buttonhole on full-time basis, although I would be willing to believe there might have been a few 'rogue' officers who didn't update their medalbar just to wear the EK2 through the buttonhole when pictures where taken (which back in the day was rarely if at all).

Kind regards, Laurentius

[1812 Overture]

On 19/02/2020 at 23:51, Utgardloki said:

I personally would also prefer to wear the EK2 in the buttonhole and not on the medalbar. That underlines its high symbolic value.

What do you guys think, was wearing it in the buttonhole only a transition period thing, until the medal bar was updated, or did some guys prefer to wear it that way without the intention to add it to the bar later?

Maybe it's too late to update the new bar

On 13/02/2020 at 22:17, Paul C said:

Maybe he did not want to redo his medal bar.

Maybe you are right, sir. The Qing Empire died in 1912. So the EK2 on this photo can only be 1870. But I am curious as to why he did not have the Commemorative War Memorial Medal, the 100th anniversary medal of William I. . And other medals?

[laurentius]

4 hours ago, 1812 Overture said:

Maybe it's too late to update the new bar

Not necessarily too late, it was uncommon to wear medalbars during the war (except for private occasions like weddings, funerals, portraits etc.) On the other hand there is also the financial argument. One does not know how many awards he will receive during the war so it would be wise to update it when you are sure you're done getting medals.

 

4 hours ago, 1812 Overture said:

Maybe you are right, sir. The Qing Empire died in 1912. So the EK2 on this photo can only be 1870. But I am curious as to why he did not have the Commemorative War Memorial Medal, the 100th anniversary medal of William I. . And other medals?

It is not uncommon to just wear an EK2 or a PLM without anything else. Keep things simple, not too flashy. An EK was enough to open doors to any place during the Wilhelmine era in Germany.

Kind regards, Laurentius

[1812 Overture]

What you said makes sense，laurentius

[Utgardloki]

According to the "Bekleidungsvorschrift für Offiziere, Sanitätsoffiziere und Veterinäroffiziere des königlich preußischen Heeres" with the kleiner Dienstanzug (small duty dress) had to be worn: PLM, EK1, Jerusalem Cross

allowed were:

• one neck insignia
• one prussian war order or its ribbon or the ribbon of the Rettungsmedaille (Livesaving medal) in the second buttonhole from above

This is from the dress regulations of the prussian army. I don't know the marine one but I think it has similar regulations for the kleiner Dienstanzug

So to switch from Dienstanzug (duty dress) zu kleiner Dienstanzug (small duty dress) if one has the EK in the buttonhole he has just to put away the medal bar (at least if you wear the Waffenrock to the kleiner Dienstanzug)?

 

Edited February 28, 2020 by Utgardloki

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

On 13/02/2020 at 16:41, Daniel Krause said:

He's got even a Crown Order 1st class with swords as "retirement present", so for sure he received EK2 and EK1 before.

As Paul already said, most likely he did not upgrade his medal bar and decided to wear the EK2 separately in the buttonhole.

 

Best,

Daniel

Do you have any kind of confirmation that Grapow was awarded the EK1?

Thanks

[Daniel Krause]

Not really.

 

It is just "normal" to get the lower ranking EK1 before you could get a way more higher award like a Crown Order 1st class.

For a higher ranking active duty guy in WW1, an EK1 was as normal as anything.

To give you some numbers, in the 1925 German Army were 720 Officers in the rank of Major and upwards.

Only ONE of them did not have an EK1.

 

There have been some rare cases directly after the beginning of WW1, as people like Ludendorff or von der Linde got immediately a plm for a quite extraordinary marit before they even got an EK2. But not anymore in 1915-18

 

Best,

Daniel