Oldenburg Veterans Grouping

[Claudius]

On 02/10/2021 at 10:47, VtwinVince said:

Agreed, just saw on another forum that this Schnalle is an expert Nachbildung.

 

Just how good of a reproduction is it?  How is the stitching under the felt look?  Do the threads glow under black light?

[Vit67]

5 minutes ago, Claudius said:

 

Just how good of a reproduction is it?  How is the stitching under the felt look?  Do the threads glow under black light?

Nothing glows. Here is the stitching under the felt.

2 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

 

I thought you were engaged in the restoration aspect of medal bars.  Some weeks ago, you presented us with a Frackschnalle in sad condition that you were proposing to restore.  Has your work evolved into creating forgeries to the dismay and contempt of medal bar collectors everywhere???

 

Never said that. What I have said: repair/restore/rebuild

 

[Vit67]

4 minutes ago, Triadoro said:

 

I have a sneaking suspicion that you're deriving a tremendous amount of satisfaction from reading that even the forum's experts failed to detect that your creation is a forgery... passing a litmus test, so to speak.  

 

It reminds me of the movie "My Fair Lady" when Professor Higgins introduces Liza Doolittle to London's high-society and nobody even remotely suspects she is actually a working class Cockney.  Regards

Very close but not exactly.  The fact that I am not ashemed and not apologizing for my doing, doesn't make me a criminal.

I  really,  really don't want to work  for a "black market". 

We need to learn to co-exist.  I just triggered the process that exposed problems, most of the people  find hard to accept.

Regards

Vitaly

 

[Claudius]

23 hours ago, Vit67 said:

Nothing glows. Here is the stitching under the felt.

 

 

22 hours ago, Vit67 said:

Very close but not exactly.  The fact that I am not ashemed and not apologizing for my doing, doesn't make me a criminal.

I  really,  really don't want to work  for a "black market". 

We need to learn to co-exist.  I just triggered the process that exposed problems, most of the people  find hard to accept.

Regards

Vitaly

 

 

Hello Vitaly;

I guess you don't understand the spirit of my question. 

 

When you made the bar, what did you do that would make it distinguishable from a period bar? 

 

Certainly using modern threads that glow under black light would not distract an owner from enjoying the bar and then it would always carry the "tell" that it is a modern assembly.  You didn't do that.  Your follow up comment regarding the construction was that it was "very close but not exactly".  In your opinion, how is it not exactly?  And what would you have done if you wanted to have a flawless forgery?  

 

[Vit67]

46 minutes ago, Simius Rex said:

I have followed Vitaly's posts both here and in WAF and I am convinced he is nothing more than an attention-whore (who also happens to be skillful at needlecraft.)  He enjoys the recognition, controversy and consternation he creates by flaunting his flawless forgeries

I do like recognition of my skills ( of any kind actually) nothing wrong with it.

Trust me I can enjoy selling my forgeries quietly.

It looks like this is the best way... unfortunately.

[Claudius]

There may be some deeper issues here.  The bar was clearly made to closely match period techniques and materials to create a forgery. 

 

To paraphrase the legal statement below for this situation, if the Maker/Seller of the piece created something to hang in the home with no intent to sell as original, no crime is committed.  However, if the Buyer wanted something so close to the original that may one day sell as original, then forgery charges could follow.

 

Vitaly may not be in trouble for creating and selling to 91-old-inf-reg. a medalbar that is a forgery because he wasn't paid the equivalent of what an original bar would sell for, but if 91-old-inf-reg keeps it as an original piece, then he might be charged with a forgery and the Feds will want to know, and they will want to know who he commissioned to get it.  It would be then that Vitaly would be added to an INTERPOL list of known forgers.  

 

For safety sake, Vitaly and 91-old-inf-reg should consult with their attorneys to make sure this transaction does not attract Federal attention, and going forward Vitaly may want to get clear legal direction about any creations he makes.  I know in the USA there are law against creating forgeries, but I don't know the laws in Ireland.  There could be fines and perhaps short jail time.  

 

 

WHITE COLLAR CRIMES: WHAT CONSTITUTES ART FORGERY?

"Creating fake art, changing an existing art piece in an attempt to increase the value, and selling a fake art piece as original art can all lead to art forgery charges. If there is no proof of intent to commit larceny or fraud, or to deceive another party, forgery charges will not likely stand.

If a person replicates a famous, valuable art piece as a decorative object to hang in his or her home with no intent to sell it as an original piece, no crime was committed. However, if an attempt is made to sell this piece as an original, forgery charges could follow... "

[Vit67]

Citizen arrest?

[Claudius]

14 minutes ago, Vit67 said:

Citizen arrest?

 

No, citizen arrests are more common with apprehensions for community police departments.  Federal agencies wouldn't recognize or allow citizens to undertake their arrests.  They use judges to sign warrants for search and seizures.

[Vit67]

4 minutes ago, Claudius said:

 

No, citizen arrests are more common with apprehensions for community police departments.  Federal agencies wouldn't recognize or allow citizens to undertake their arrests.  They use judges to sign warrants for search and seizures.

I see. I was sarcastic.

Just because I really don't know what to say in response yo your post with all the scary abbreviations . 

 

[hagahr]

1. Vit67, ?
   
   I think you don't have to worry al too much about federal agents and citizen arrests ?
   
   The bottom line is,you presented the bar as it was.
   
   Your work in restoring /building.(if my interpretation of this topic is correct).
   
   So yea well done.
   
   So far the strange turn out of this topic created a little blush on the faces of the established order.(to say it carefully)
   
   So, yes they repay you. (drama expected)
   
   But the upright standing for your work and replies here made me think I should salute you.
   
   By this I do.
   
   Regards Kay

 

 

 

 

[Vit67]

On 18/10/2021 at 11:18, hagahr said:

1. Vit67, ?
   
   ......
   
   But the upright standing for your work and replies here made me think I should salute you.
   
   By this I do.
   
   Regards Kay

On 18/10/2021 at 11:18, hagahr said:

H Kay

Thank you very much! I appreciate it, a lot!

 

 

[Vit67]

To be honest this discussion (and many others)  were extremely useful. At this moment I have complete understanding of the current situation.  Of course there are people who will hate me, but  there also will be supporters or at least  people who like what I do. I hardly react on insults and attempts to undermine my activity or devalue my efforts (you have to agree it takes hours and hours of research, not just steady hands for stitching)

I have decided to go public, I will create a website where I will offer my services.

THANK YOU ALL!!!  You all helped me a lot.

 

P.S.

 

Have you seen this one? I build it for myself

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[91-old-inf-reg]

Thank you @Simius Rex and others for your valued input, it is greatly appreciated.

 

As it was I who first shared my items and causing this uproar, I would still like to convey my apologies for what some may call careless forethought.

 

As already previously stated by myself, it was never my intention to deceive the community or any other joining parties. It cannot be denied, as the this and the thread Sismus linked clearly displays the problems prevalent in collecting. There is no doubt that these forgeries are whole heartedly unacceptable and should be publicized as a warning against people practically throwing away their hard earned money as well as disrupting the pool of authentic items.

Perhaps I’m writing this for self justification and comfort, but I never intend to sell this bar, and although it has already been stated that it is seriously looked down upon, I bought it for my own semi-preservation of history, thinking that this would be a perfect compliment to the ribbon bar, but perhaps I was seriously mistaken, in which case I am more than willing to take such responsibility.

All I want is nothing more than to forget my mistake, and appreciate the pieces I was able to give a collective, safe, and proper home, and, although due to such actions most unlikely, to have the possible compliments of those in the community regarding these Oldenburg pieces, and appreciate the history that they represent.

 

All I wanted to do was to appreciate Oldenburg History, not unappreciatively and ignorantly destroy it.

 

I only want to build bridges, not burn them.

 

Best Regards.
 

[VtwinVince]

I detect some very disingenuous behaviour on this thread.

[Vit67]

1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:

I detect some very disingenuous behaviour on this thread.

If you mean me - you are wrong. I am absolutely sincere. It wasn't easy for me to go trough all this ordeal. Different thoughts were crossing my mind, I even wanted to "slam the door" and go "underground"... but then again thanks to all negative and positive responses I can say - I will make, repair, rebuild  and sell my medal bars openly.

And one more thing - I will never apologize for what I am doing. If it feels right it can't be wrong.

For myself  it is a period.

 

 

 

 

[Claudius]

4 hours ago, Vit67 said:

 I am absolutely sincere. 

And one more thing - I will never apologize for what I am doing. If it feels right it can't be wrong.

 

Oh I believe you are sincere Vitaly.  You have every intention on continuing to make medal bars that will pass close inspection...because you can.  Other than the crimes of passion, the prisons are filled with individuals who didn't see anything wrong with what they did.  Especially fraud.  Why else do they have to lock them up?  Nobody is going to say; "I listened to my trial and heard the verdict.  I agree I should serve time for my crime." 

 

It's only an empathic person that realizes that I don't want to hurt others because I don't want to be hurt.  Or if I don't care about myself, to someone I love.  You wouldn't want someone to sell phony stocks to your mother. That might make you angry, but the person who duped your mother wouldn't care at all.  You are working on your craft, and they are working on their swindle.  

[VtwinVince]

LOL, either your intentions were 'lost in translation', which happens a lot on the interweb, or you are a very devious individual. Either way, just another reason why I quit collecting a few years ago.

[lew]

On 20/10/2021 at 18:37, VtwinVince said:

I detect some very disingenuous behaviour on this thread.

+1

[Nicolas7507]

This gentleman is selling his fake bars on german forums all the time. A few pics. Be careful.

 

I am pretty sure all of the following bars are not genuine. Please note the similarities.

 

Nicolas

More bars

Edited October 24, 2023 by Nicolas7507

[Nicolas7507]

[VtwinVince]

Great, it was bad enough with the Schraegstich Faker, now we have this guy as well.