Karltruppen Kreuz - Wear Question

[gjw]

Hello all, I posted my recent acquired KTK's one of which was attached backwards.

 

I've been informed that Hungarian Soldier's did wear this medal backwards to show the Crown of St Stephen. 

 

Any truth to this?

 

Also, are there other non-official practices the Hungarians or other minorities did with regards to their individual awards?

 

Thanks so much!!

 

Greg  

 

 

 

[graham]

Interesting, would be great to find out whether this was the practice of some of the Austro-Hungarian military.

[Elmar Lang]

Hello, 

I regret to say that this is one of the "legends", quickly spreading around thanks to the web and some of its self-appointed gurus. 

 

I repeat that like in any field of collecting, also the imperial austrian phaleristic needs study and research, in order to build up a good experience. 

 

Again, I would like to suggest that the best investment, would be to buy the three parts (2-volumes each) of the Ludwigstorff-Ortner work. 

 

The Edition in the English language is excellently done, so that also the non-German speaking community, will have the opportunity to easily study the subject. 

[graham]

Thanks Elmar. Yes, the Ludwigstorff-Ortner books are excellent. I have the English version Part 1 but have yet to acquire Parts 2 and 3.

[gjw]

Thanks EL, appreciate the info!

 

I've got Part II of the L-O book on order.  Can't wait to get it!

 

Best,

 

Greg

[chechaco1]

over the past century, they could outweigh them many times. Only the photo of the cavalier can serve as confirmation, and then indirectly, because the Hungarians did not differ in the accuracy of wearing awards, as can be seen from the medals of the "Hungarian revenge". It draws attention to the fact that, unlike the Austro-Hungarian practice of placing the connecting ring of the medal inside the triangular pad, under the fabric, which looked rather, I'm afraid of this word, more aesthetically pleasing, Hungarians wore medals with a connecting ring outwards, trying, probably, to indicate that they are not aesthetes. After all, as the cook Yuraida said: "All aesthetes are homosexuals."

they could even hang a triangular block backwards (the third photo, the second medal).

[gjw]

Interesting photo.  Thanks chechaco1 for posting it.

 

Certainly  Hungarian and sure looks like the KTK is worn Reverse showing.

 

Interesting

 

Thanks again!

 

Greg

[graham]

Another worn in reverse:

 

http://www.josefkolbe.com/awards/karl-troop-cross

[chechaco1]

Wearing crowns as an obverse is common, yes.

[gjw]

Thanks for posting these photos and links.  Interesting.  Wonder how common this practice was.

 

I know Franz Joseph wore medals with his image reversed.  But, different subject all together.

 

Best,

 

Greg

[chechaco1]

[tifes]

Hi, 

 

useful tread to learn a distinction between AH and Hungarian (1922-1945) medals bars: 

Of course, some "flexibility" for AH officers/ NCOs was tolerated by military authorities (in comparison to Prussia, for instance) but we should stick to the facts as Enzo mentioned above and not to "adore various legends". Good literature and study of information from verified historical sources is the only way forward. It's at least so important as collecting itself. 

 

Regards, 

 

Tifes (Tomas)

[chechaco1]

A fact is a photo or a video. They objectively recorded from that time that they wore both this way and that, regardless of nationality. Why did they do this - I have not met the memories of the cavaliers of the award. Everything else: the rules of wearing - which may be violated, subjective memories and explanations of contemporaries who were not awarded, and the positions of researchers, which, among other things, may be incomplete, tendentious or erroneous.

[gjw]

Hey all, this has been an interesting thread.  Upon further thought, the simple answer is, troops will do what they want.  Even if it's against Regulations/Formal Decrees.  The best example I can offer is how US Army Airborne (Paratroops) wore their Combat Infantry/Combat Medical Badges in the Second World War.  By regulation, these badges are to worn above the left pocket and over any ribbon bars.  Instead they wore their Parachute Qualification Badges in this position and their CIB/CMB on the pocket flap....below any ribbon bars.  No one really corrected this practice.  Thus I think the same with the wear of the KTK.  The individual wore them how they wanted too.

 

Thanks again for all the great pictures!

 

Best,

 

Greg

[chechaco1]

we have the correctness and accuracy of the placement of awards before the solemn formation / passage was checked by the commander of the unit

as a result, they came to the conclusion that it is more reasonable to order a common block in the military trade than to suffer with the alignment of awards one by one.

[chechaco1]

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

 

nice group, showing an otherwise wrongly-mounted bar.

 

Firstly, the Silberne Tapferkeitsmedaille 2.Klasse type Kaisr Franz Joseph should take the first place.

 

Secondarily, the ribbons after the first award should be "under" each other.

 

Said that, a further interesting witness of what happened especially after WW1.

 

Best wishes,

 

Enzo (E.L.)

[chechaco1]

[chechaco1]

[chechaco1]

[Farkas]

On 02/12/2022 at 08:10, chechaco1 said:

Such a cool photo, lots to see.,.

[922F]

Fascinating!!

[Graf]

7 hours ago, 922F said:

Fascinating!!

I agree