Soviet stupid beginners question ...

[Christian L]

i thought to place this question here, as what i want to know and for sure like - is "discuessed" here.

i'm looking in this sub forum more often, as i really like what stories exist behind the awards (one digit different and a total different story - thats the thing what really amazes me!)

so now the question - which decoration i should buy for getting also a "story" with it. no looking for a fighter pilot, admiral or tank unit hero (if it will turn out to be something like this - GREAT, but if not also GREAT!)

its more the thing, that i want to get an award which will be researchable and to be awarded for something (not long service or sitting 3 years behind the frontline) something war related (normal frontline soldier)

and this award should be in the "lower" price area - (as i mentioned before - normal frontline soldiers award - and best would be with enamel - as my main focus, imperial germany is so expensive if you look at enamel, and if a single award, not even researchable)

hope i could explain what i'm looking for and hope that i can get some help from forum members.

thanks very much in advance christian

[Gerd Becker]

He?s hooked, he?s hooked

Early Red Stars with Screwpost base, Orders of the Patriotic War 1st and 2nd classes, Orders of Glory 3rd class, Orders for Service to the Homland 3rd class are allways worth the research IMO.

Early Red Stars are at about 100-200 Dollar, OPW 1st classes at 350-400 Dollar, OPW 2nd classes at 50-100 Dollar, Glory 3rd classes at ca 40-50 Dollar and Homeland 3rd classes at ca. 200-300 Dollar, so these are all more or less affordable.

Hope, i could help.

Gerd

[Guest Rick Research]

Two good choices would be an Order of the Patriotic War or a Valor Medal.

If you check the serial numbers and dates "sticky" we have going, you will see around when the long service Orders were given, to avoid one of those if what you want is a "real" one.

For a "real" award nothing, in my opinion, beats a Red Banner for bravery. For an "action" WW2 type on the ribbon, from late 1943 into 1944, look for serial numbers between about 85,000 and 10X,000, but no higher than 10X,000 unless you jump to 1945 awards, which start up again at about 220-XXX-250,XXX.

Red Stars will also be for action of some kind below 900,000, so there is a lot of choice there. I love the thinner armed type with the screwpost base, and ANY award to say 150,000 is going to be hard earned and very likely the equivalent of a much higher award when they were handing decorations out like candy in 1945.

[NavyFCO]

In my opinion, buy a Glory 3rd.

Why?

1 - It's researchable, guaranteed

2 - It will defiantely be for combat action (unlike OGPWs, Red Stars, Red Banners, Homeland 3rds)

3 - They're cheap (relatively)

4 - They're resellable for a profit once researched (try that with a For Valor medal!)

Can't beat that.

Dave

[NavyFCO]

Here are a couple citations I just got in for (late-numbered) Glories (horrid plug..some are for sale...)

Comrade Zherebtsov served in the Soviet Army since 07/15/1941 with the 100th cavalry regiment of the Leningrad Front. Participated in combat with his regiment as a cavalryman in the vicinity of Okulovka station and Porkhovsk area, Pskov Region. On 08/14/1941 during an offensive operation in the vicinity of the town of Porkhov he was wounded with shell fragments into the right side of the thorax, both legs, the left buttock, and the same day was taken prisoner by Germans. There are no consequences of his wounds. The wounds were proved by the medical committee of the Smolnyi District Military Draft and Registration Office of the city of Leningrad on 16 May 1957. Liberated on 04/05/1945 by US troops in Western Germany and handed over to the Soviet Command in June 1945.

***************

Acting as part of the 3rd Battery on 07/22/1944 during the forced crossing of the Western Bug River, Comrade Vlasiuk used his rifle to quell a firing position of the enemy which was denying the advance of our infantry, and killed two enemy gunners, who were hiding at a separate house. As a result, our infantry moved forward without any casualties.

On 07/01/1944 during the battle at the town of Grabovets he destroyed a cart and killed two enemy soldiers.

On 08/09/1944 while rebuffing an enemy counter-attack on the left bank of the Visla River Comrade Vlasiuk used his rifle to destroy an enemy machine ? gun with the crew.

During the hand ? to ? hand combat Comrade Vlasiuk killed two enemy soldiers and an officer from his gun.

***************

Subject to the draft, Sergeev A.V. fought the German and Fascists invaders during the Great Patriotic War as part of the active Army, took a direct and active part in the fights, and sustained three wounds while fulfilling his combat missions:

1. Part of the 11th Partisan Detachment, 8th Partisan Brigade, on 01/21/1944 he was lightly wounded into the right leg with a fragment of an enemy mine when blowing up a railway groundwork.

2. On 08/04/1944 during the offensive operation as part of the 1247th Infantry Regiment he was severely wounded into the jaw and the right arm.

3. On 02/20/1945 during the offensive operation in Eastern Prussia as part of the separate gunners? company, 53th Motorized Brigade, he was severely wounded into an eye and the jaw.

***************

Private (retired) T.D. Ivanov participated in the Great Patriotic War from 22 June 1941 till 20 August 1944 as part of the 24th Separate Guard?s Combat Engineer Battalion, 5th Army, 3rd Belorussian Front. In the offensive operation in the vicinity of the town of Mariizmpole (town of Kapsukas), Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic, he was severely wounded with shell fragments into the right thigh. His right leg was later amputated. The wound is proved by the unnumbered certificate issued at #5948 evacuation hospital on 04/18/1945.

Due to the wound he was treated at #5948 evacuation hospital for ??? months. After the treatment he was separated from the military on 23 February 1945. From 1945 to 1950 he worked as a secretary and the chairman of the village council in Orshan District, Vitebsk Region.

***************

Sergeant Chizhukov Aleksandr Alekseevich is an active participant of the Great Patriotic War. During the battles on 22 March 1945 he assumed command over a machine-gun platoon and owning to his personal courage the platoon several times rebuffed the enemy attacks and over 60 German soldiers and officers had been killed. Comrade Chizhikov has received one severe and one light wound as well as a shell-shock. He has been treated at the hospitals several times. The wounds are proved by the certificates from the evacuation hospitals # 5258, 1679, 3465 (certificates # 1527, 16 and without number). Currently he is a disabled veteran of the Great Patriotic War, 3rd category, but he continues to work at the sovkhoz.

[Mondvor]

Well, that is a great question! I've seen hundreds of citations and must say that it is extremely difficult to find an award with a really interesting story behind. You can try to research something like Great Patriotic War (as Rick mentioned above) because it is non-long service award and was given mostly for combat heroism. But there is always a chance to get something like Mech's GPW (for successful trading in local military store) or like Rodionov's two GPWs (given for the same events of providing Communist propaganda among other political officers). Both groups are described in this forum and you can see them by yourself.

Order of Glory and Bravery medal are more reliable choices, I totally agree with Rick and Dave. But it is more about early numbers. I've seen many 1945-issued Glories and Braveries, that were given for something like "good conduct" or for being in Red Army since 1941 and wounded couple of times. Also I've seen some Glories given to personal drivers of high-ranking officers and to other people who were closely related to Division Headquarters.

In my opinion it is always interesting to research ANY of early award from 1941-42 period. In most cases there is a true feat behind them. Red Banners in s/n range 16.000 - 30.000, Red Stars from 23.000 to 100.000 numbers, Otvaga and MM medals from 25.000 to 100.000. Those might be really cool. Not many people were awarded prior to 1943 because Read Army mostly retreated and there was no reasons to give awards. Except for REAL heroism.

That is only my private opinion, I might be wrong

[Christian L]

wow - thanks a lot for the replys to all!

and yes, i'm very interested in the researchable stuff

also with the small listing of possibilities i might be able to get.

(wrote the info down now - and in 2 weeks i try to go to a medalshow and we'll see, what i'm able to bring home ) and you'll be the frist to have a look at it!

still a lot to learn and keeping in mind - but with the items in hand it'll be much easier i guess (might this be a good explanation for enlarging the collecting field )

thanks much to all christian

[ALEX.S]

hi

in my opinion the best research you can get is for order of nevsky. these ussialy were given for serious fighting

thanx

alex

[Guest Rick Research]

Christian: copy and paste the serial numbers and dates list and take that with you to shows. That way you can see whether something is likely to be for long service or "real" action.

[Vatjan]

In my opinion it is always interesting to research ANY of early award from 1941-42 period.

... Red Stars from 23.000 to 100.000 numbers, ...

May I ask why Red stars only from 23000 onwards. I ask because I have a 15XXX red star I was planning on having researched, so I'm curious.

Thanks

Jan

[Bob]

hi

in my opinion the best research you can get is for order of nevsky. these ussialy were given for serious fighting

thanx

alex

Presumably doesn't meet the "lower price range" criterium though

[Mondvor]

May I ask why Red stars only from 23000 onwards. I ask because I have a 15XXX red star I was planning on having researched, so I'm curious.

Thanks

Jan

There are two reasons for this particular number range.

First. The numbers prior to 23.000 could be issued before WW II. So you would not find any citations for them. No citation - no story

Second. The numbers lower than 23.000 are not very common and it's hard to find them. Also the prices are higher (we are not talking about riveted Stars that were issued mostly in Noveber 1941 - January 1942, because this is very different story, that's all just about regular screwpost base Stars).

[Vatjan]

There are two reasons for this particular number range.

First. The numbers prior to 23.000 could be issued before WW II. So you would not find any citations for them. No citation - no story

Second. The numbers lower than 23.000 are not very common and it's hard to find them. Also the prices are higher (we are not talking about riveted Stars that were issued mostly in Noveber 1941 - January 1942, because this is very different story, that's all just about regular screwpost base Stars).

OK, but do you think it might be a waste of money, or still worth the while trying?

I was lucky with this one, I only paid the price of 3million+ red star

Thanks for you help

Jan

[Mondvor]

OK, but do you think it might be a waste of money, or still worth the while trying?

I was lucky with this one, I only paid the price of 3million+ red star

Thanks for you help

Jan

Hi Jan,

Of course you can try to do the research. Most likely this award was given for so-called "winter war" betwen Soviet Union and Finland in 1939-40. But all you can find is the name of the recipient ant sometimes his rank. There is a complete lists of pre-war awards recipients (those lists are separate for each award). My friend has a complete list of mirror-reversed Red Banners and about 90% complete list of early Red Stars (before 10.000). Some other people have lists of BH and RBL.

But it was common that for pre-war awards no citations were filled. At least I didn't see any of them. All early awards were given in Kremlin only and in most cases the person who actually gave the award to recipient was Kalinin (one of the leaders of Communist Government). So it would be really hard to get a description of the merits for that Red Star.

Could you share the images of your Red Star with us?

[Bryan]

Early Red Stars with Screwpost base, Orders of the Patriotic War 1st and 2nd classes, Orders of Glory 3rd class, Orders for Service to the Homland 3rd class are allways worth the research IMO.

Gerd, I'm surprised you didn't mention Order of the Red Banner! Is that because you want to keep them for you!

[Bryan]

May I ask why Red stars only from 23000 onwards. I ask because I have a 15XXX red star I was planning on having researched, so I'm curious.

Hi Jan, did you post your Gosnak Red Star somewhere on the forum???

[Alfred]

Hi Jan,

Of course you can try to do the research. Most likely this award was given for so-called "winter war" betwen Soviet Union and Finland in 1939-40. But all you can find is the name of the recipient ant sometimes his rank. There is a complete lists of pre-war awards recipients (those lists are separate for each award). My friend has a complete list of mirror-reversed Red Banners and about 90% complete list of early Red Stars (before 10.000). Some other people have lists of BH and RBL.

But it was common that for pre-war awards no citations were filled. At least I didn't see any of them. All early awards were given in Kremlin only and in most cases the person who actually gave the award to recipient was Kalinin (one of the leaders of Communist Government). So it would be really hard to get a description of the merits for that Red Star.

Could you share the images of your Red Star with us?

Hello Soviet,

couldn?t find a Gosnak Star in my cellar, but between my bric and brac I found this one.

Are there any names to the serial number 3.659 available?

regrads

Andreas

[Vatjan]

Mine is not quite that early, hardly a Goznak nor a Mondvor

Anyway here are the pix

[Vatjan]

and the back

[Mondvor]

What can I say? It's just beautiful. Escpecially considering the price

[Dolf]

Hello Soviet,

couldn?t find a Gosnak Star in my cellar, but between my bric and brac I found this one.

Are there any names to the serial number 3.659 available?

regrads

Andreas

Andreas,

Which Variation would that one be? A T2 large curved Mondvor reverse (using PMD references)?

Using again PMD as a reference yours is a Early Monetny Dvor reverse, with screwpost base, right Jan?

Nice pieces! You really are successful low S/Ns hunters!

Dolf

Edited June 4, 2006 by Dolf

[Alfred]

Hello Dolf,

yes it seems to be a large mint mark.

regards

Andreas

[Vatjan]

Using again PMD as a reference yours is a Early Monetny Dvor reverse, with screwpost base, right Jan?

So it would seem, Dolf

[Ed_Haynes]

Pretty stuff

[Bryan]

Nice one Andreas!