How to remove 'green stuff' from a Bronze Star?

[Great Dane]

Hello gentlemen,

I have a US Bronze Star (part of a mounted group) which has two small patches of that blue-green stuff that often is seen on copper (verdigris?).

What is the best method to get rid of it (I'm afraid of leaving it there, as it might 'grow')?

What causes it?

I tried to remove some of it with just a soft cloth. It got a little better but after a few weeks it was the same as before (and I don't live in a particular moist climate).

So before I move on to more drastic methods, I thought I'd better ask the experts.

Thanks in advance,

/Mike

[JBFloyd]

I can only pass along received information on this, as I've never had much luck removing verdigris. One friend uses automobile carburator cleaner and another says that extra virgin olive oil will help lift it off after a soak. The latter certainly smells better than the former, but both cause damage to the ribbon, so care is critical.

[Michael Johnson]

On British WWII Stars I've had good luck with tomato ketchup - leaves them nice and shiny. But for a mounted group and American medal bronze, I'm not sure that it's the route to go.

[Guest Rick Research]

No, the tomato acid would strip the matte finish right off.

Don't ask me how I know these things.

(It helps to outlive all the witnesses. )

Verdigris seems to grow on TOP of the metal and not INTO it. I've had success just by moistening a wooden toothpick so that it is not hard and scratchy and "chipping" the green away slowly. That should work, I hope, on something like a Bronze Star that does not have enamel that might chip if poked at. But you need to soften the wooden toothpick enough so that the splinters in the wood will not SCRATCH. The wide rounded end works better than the narrow pointed end.

[Guest Darrell]

No, the tomato acid would strip the matte finish right off.

Don't ask me how I know these things.

(It helps to outlive all the witnesses. )

And imagine people use Tomato soup as a means of getting rid of "skunk" smell

BTW .. that black cat looks like a skunk ... minus the white stripe.

[Michael Johnson]

BTW .. that black cat looks like a skunk ... minus the white stripe.

A "Stealth Skunk", no doubt, from the Lockheed "Skonk Works"

[coastie]

And imagine people use Tomato soup as a means of getting rid of "skunk" smell

BTW .. that black cat looks like a skunk ... minus the white stripe.

Hey Darrel it's Tomato Juice, Trust me I've been there, My cat thought it could take on a skunk and lost. Comes back into the house and afterwards trying to clean her I got more of the smell on me than on her.

The chipping with the toothpick is good as well as brushing it off. Afterwards you can use a matte nail polish to isolate it from the air.

[Guest Darrell]

Hey Darrel it's Tomato Juice, Trust me I've been there, My cat thought it could take on a skunk and lost. Comes back into the house and afterwards trying to clean her I got more of the smell on me than on her.

Yep ... Tomato Juice is what I meant. Wonder if Campell's would work as well?

Edited July 29, 2006 by Darrell

[Great Dane]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Someone once recommended using WD-40, but since that treatment also involved "and then you just polish it until it is nice and shiny" I didn't want to go down that road...

Sounds like the softened toothpick is worth a try. Maybe the 'secret' is to remove ALL of it, so that it doesn't grow back...?

I'll give it a go...

Thanks gentlemen,

/Mike

[Steve K.]

Q-tips, either dry or slightly moistened with water works best for me. What doesn't come off easily, stays.

I just cleaned a leather holster this a.m. from a Vietnam vet. The coppered rivits holding the leather together get verdigris bad....almost a miniature forest on each rivit. It cleaned up nicely. Now just gotta keep it dry.

[Avitas]

Myself, I just like to keep it "under control" by using warm water and a toothbrush, followed by rubbing with a dry cotton cloth. This doesn't remove all of it but it does stop it from spreading and if done periodically it won't get any worse. I did this to a couple of my medals (the Italy-Germany Afrika medal for one) and it is working good. I don't really see verdigris as a major problem though, I think it adds character to the piece and it doesn't demean the piece in my view. Just my experiences,

Later,

Pat

[yank44]

The United States Air Force museum states that verdigris on metal items should be removed with reworked dental picks or probes and then cleaned with q-tips (cotton ear swabs) dipped in Naptha. After it is done, then a lacquer can be applied with a small artist's brush. Allow 1-2 days for drying of lacquer before storing or putting on exhibition.

[Great Dane]

Hmm... it is starting to reappear no matter how thoroughly I cleaned it, so I'll give the Naptha stuff a chance (whatever it is called over here...)

Thanks yank44

/Mike

[Guest Darrell]

I am a strong advocat of LEAVING ALONE .. however ... ONCE before I cleaned a KVK 1st Class. It had this god awful greensih patina that looked like crap ... at least to me it did. So .... taking a chance I washed it with soap and water and a soft tooth brush. Below are before and after pics. I was quite happy. Some will cringe .. I will not

[peter monahan]

Hmm... it is starting to reappear no matter how thoroughly I cleaned it, so I'll give the Naptha stuff a chance (whatever it is called over here...)

Thanks yank44

/Mike

Naptha is a petroleum derivative: "kerosene", "coal oil", various other names refer to a family of related hydrocarbons.

Lighter fluid would probably work and not be as nasty or dangerous as gasoline. But don't quote me on that, ask someone who knows better if naptha is somehow different from the others. I don't think so but I'd hate to be responsilble for ruining a good piece.

[Great Dane]

Thanks Peter,

Yes, after asking around locally that was also the explanation I got.

I carefully - very carefully - applied some Naptha, and so far the green stuff hasn't reappeared.

And although Darrell's result is impressive, I think the Bronze Star is supposed to have a 'matte' finish. So I don't really want to use a toothbrush on it (I once attempted to clean a medal made of 'blackened silver' - a process where the grooves are left black and the rest of the medal is silver colored - with just warm water, soap and a toothbrush and the black parts were completely gone )

The Bronze Star in question is named and part of a mounted group, so it's not really replaceable if something goes wrong...

/Mike

[peter monahan]

The Bronze Star in question is named and part of a mounted group, so it's not really replaceable if something goes wrong...

Ouch! Tough call.

I suspect though, that the US Museum folks meant you had to clean the brass/bronze with dental picks -ie: very very gently chip away the green, then use naptha to "kill" the chemicals cauisng it so as to prevent a recurrence. I'm pretty sure when it gets to the "crust" stage, verdigris can only be removed by physical, not chemical, cleaning, because it indictaes the metal itself is breaking down: the bronze equivalent of rust. The best you can hope for is to get it off and prevent more - hence naptha- but not restore the original finish because it's not a surface contanminant it's actually coming from the bronze itself.

Having said all that, you may want to leave it alone and not risk ruining the group. A few years ago I'd have been an industrious "cleaner" myself, but since taking a conservation course for a museum study's certificate, I'm tending to the museum's approach which is "keep it from getting worse; do nothing you can't undo" (eg, wax, never lacquer). Sorry not to be more help.

Peter

[Great Dane]

I really do appreciate your help, Peter. Thanks.

And I agree completely - keep things as they are as far as possible. The only thing that I was concerned about was if it was getting worse. It seems to be under control now, so I'll cross my fingers and keep an eye on it.

Thanks to everybody for their help and advice

As a treat for the eye I can show you the mounted group (although the green stuff was on the reverse of the Bronze Star which I don't have a picture of right now...).

This is a Korean War group to a doctor working on the Hospital Ship Jutlandia. The - by far - rarest piece in this group is the third medal 'The Jutlandia Medal'.

/Mike

[Ed_Haynes]

A lovely and amazing group, and worth taking extra special care!

[Jacky]

whooow,

Really nice group!!

Order of the danneborg,

Member of the british empire and a bronze star!!

Any history known of this receipment??

Kind regards,

Jacky

[Great Dane]

Yup, I know the guy. I also have his award document for the Dannebrog Order.

The Dannebrog Order was not given in (direct) connection with the Korean War (he was Knight in 1960 and Knight 1. class in 1967).

He is listed as a recipient of the British MBE and the Bronze Star in 1960, so I assume that these were awarded for service in Korea (after all the Jutlandia treated a lot of soldiers and civilians), but I can't be sure.

So far more research of this has been without result. It is always easier to rersearch ODMs given to a country's own citizens.

Although the Jutlandia Medal was awarded 479 times, the majority of them (95%?) were never mounted in groups because they were awarded to nurses or other civilians working on board. Most of them received this medal, the UN Korea medal and the Korean War Service Medal and kept them as unmounted singles.

/Mike

[yank44]

I really should have read the responses to this. The museum states to clean the verdigris with dental picks, not the the naptha. The naptha is applied after the verdigris is removed to clean the area prior to varnishing. The museum picks the verdigris off, then cleans the area up using naptha sparingly. Then they varnish the area to prevent further oxidization. Hope that clears up what I wrote. Sorry it took so long.

[new world]

I've used nail polish removing solution to get rid of "green stuff" in the past.

Soft brush was dipped into the solution and worked on infected areas. Then the medal was rinsen off with warm water.

This method worked like magic for me. So far green stuff did not come back (after two months)...

William

Edited March 12, 2007 by new world

[FrontlineAntiques]

I have used nail varnish remover too, rubbed over the affected area with a Q-tip. then rinsed the medal under warm water and dried off with a hairdryer.

Sounds more like a beauty makeover! :jumping:

[unit8]

For getting green stuff off medals and leather use vinegar.

Remove all ribbons if possible otherwise work very slowly and carefully.

Rub in on with a cloth, ear bud and do it until all the green stuff is gone. Then abit of water to get rid of the vingar traces and dry throughly.

With leather immediately rub the leather down with dubin to moisten it as the vinegar will dry it out.

Edited September 7, 2009 by unit8