Claudius

I agree with Wild Card. A nice, rare combination of awards to a non-combatant. I like the "1914" bar. I wonder what it was supposed to signify (other than providing aid in 1914). Does it mean that was the only year that the recipient provided aid, or was that just the award date. If so an early awarding. Can we see the reverse as well? Thank you for showing it.

The medal bar to the medal bar in the photo looks like a perfect match to me. This is great! GMIC has witnessed this medal bar's transfer from owner to owner, but perhaps now with a photo, the bar has now found a home. There isn't a name perchance? Could someone inform RR. I know he offered his research into this bar and would be very interesting at this new development. NOTE: The felt backing is dark blue. I had thought this was generally reserved for navy or post-war uniforms. I will have to supplement my understanding of that guideline. Anyone's additional thoughts or clarifications on this? Tom: You know what you have to now Tom, right? You have to get an Italian Order of the Crown to put along side this bar.

Outstanding. Looks great. Nicely done with your restoration. A solid bar.

Hear, hear!

It says that aircraft confirm the illegal activity. They should have dropped a few "eggs" on their decks and they could have JOINED the ships below! Although I realize it would be poetic justice if they were torpedoes.

Great pieces Noor! Thank you for showing them and including the background pertaining to the medals. That is something very important and sometimes I think it gets set aside. While the background of militaria does help determine its monetary value, I think it has a greater value in the intellectual satisfaction in knowing the facts, circumstances and details behind a piece. Keep showing us your finds please. And maybe….Can I come along shopping with you? I think I would like to be your “wing man” on these forays. :lol:

You do have a good number of examples that I've seldom seen in period photos.

Sorry, I thought we were talking about HK with sword grades. Although you are correct and I should have said that there are; with swords, without swords and widow crosses. There are minis for watch fobs as well as stickpins, button holes and other variations for wear. I have a 1930s period catalog that shows the medal bar and ribbon bar pieces, the and the miniatures that were available for purchase. Thank you for showing these ribbon bars. First one; That is a really small sword device. It looks small. I can’t imagine the recipient coming to pick-up his newly made ribbon bar from the tailor and accepting this. I tend to believe that he lost his swords somewhere and this was the best replacement. Strange that the eagles don’t line up. I can’t tell exactly, but what is the last ribbon? Second one; Great. Yes those last two are small angle swords. The first two (Bulgarians) are the wider angle swords to distinguish them from the latter ones. I noticed that number 4 ribbon is missing a sword device. Third one; Yes that KVK and Hungarian have different swords from the two commemoratives. Strange how the Hungarian commemorative is ostracized on the other side of the other two. Again, the devices don’t appear to line up. Forth one; Nice one. Those swords are different, but barely so. Like #1, #2 and #3, maybe that one lost his swords early on and this was a VERY close match. Having these bars blown up to twice size in a photo it is easier to see differences, but if someone is wearing them on your tunic and standing a meter and half away…it’s indistinguishable.

That's a great idea. I would like hear his thoughts.

OK...I'll go out on a limb and say I don't like the ribbon bar. Perhaps an unpopular position, but I'll name SOME of the reasons why I don't like it. The sword devices don't all match. Not just the color, but the size/shape. All of the swords are the narrow angle type. If this is suppose to be the SKM, the ribbon doesn’t need the swords. If this is supposed to be a SEK, the swords would be the wider angle type. (There are instances of swords on SKM, but I believe this was a personal decision for the NCO or lower, to indicate that it wasn’t a different Schwarzburg medal) The devices don’t line up. Does the Olympic medal get an eagle device? I don’t usually see them, but I don’t know the regs, or the all the different circumstances. This gent received an amazing four different state awards and a Bulgaria (pre-war) cross but shows a stunning lack of officer grade awards.

May I also say what an outstanding bar you have there! It has the potential to hang some of the great, non-enamel medals that Württemberg had to offer. Your project to restore this bar with the appropriate medals is encouraging to me. Silly question, but were the threads of the medals really "cut" from underneath the ribbons, or are their hooks? I think Saschaw gave the great advice when he advised finding a real hardcore knowledge Württemberg expert to get the best medal matches. Herr Bretzendorfer certainly comes to mind, but I don't want to discount the knowledge Mr. Krause brings. I would like to hear both of their analyses of this bar. I can't wait to see your restroration progress. Can we see the reverse side?

Does that EK2 have a device on it? It looks like one of those unofficial mini EKs to denote an EK1.

@Saschaw; You are right. I did misunderstand you. The fault is mine. Regarding the wartime award with swords, but not wearing them is an important fact. Great to know! @Deruelle; Could you list the awards on his ribbon bar? The picture is a bit blurry for me. Thank you.

Yes, I agree the back has tight needlework. Very agreeable, but IMO that alone can not be reason to accept this ribbon bar. This can be replicated by deft hands. My own mother can still make tight stitchs when she has a mind to. I still don't like the combination/ordering. We are to believe that before the war he earned the SA w/o S and Civil Order w/o S. When war broke out he earned the EK2, OK2 and his Saxon homeland awarded him their big order -the SHO, but not the w/S of the SA or Civil Order.

Hmmm...this ribbon bar would have us believe either; wartime SA and Civil Merit Orders (and OK?) where the bar maker didn't put on the swords or, a pre-war SA and Civil Order, later earned wartime EK2 and SHO. In the later case, if he was a pre-war officer he didn't receive any other pre-war medals or DA? I would like to see what a black light would reveal. If positive -then we know, but even a negative result would be inconclusive as a period piece. At best, it is an odd construction. @CRBeery -Where did get it?

Yes, I see that now. At first half-second glance it looks like Aborigines, but the features are wrong and clearly the other "characters" have cartoon beards and costumes too. There are many who have forgotten more about "crossing the line" than I know, but to us Landlubbers, it refers to initiation ceremony for new sailors who have sailed far enough south to cross the equator, and into the realm of Neptune.

Maybe some hardcore collector wanted it to fill a hole in his collection. hahahaha....good one. And, of course, there must have been another collector who had to drive this bid up.

Indeed...indeed so. I'm glad you got it. Great bar and mini!! It looks like you will have some great leads in identifying the recipient -Excellent. Outstanding work in the research. Great work in using historical rolls and logical progressions.

:speechless1: I'm sorry what did you say? I'm still looking at his PLM, his ribbon bar and the Wurttemberg(?) 1st Class badge. .

Again, Congratulations Claudio on your praiseworthy efforts to reconstitute this group. It is loathsome to imagine that when this group was purchased back in 2007 was destined to be divided up and sold like the spoils of a treasure chest. The original recipient obviously was important enough in post-1934 Germany that he needed his medal bar in Frack form for this civilian clothes and a multitude of knopflochshleifen to keep in his many suit coats and dress jackets. The identity of the recipient would be as interesting as WHAT he was doing in the mid-1930's that warranted this number of bars, minis and knopflochshleifen. (I believe when this group was discussed months ago I commented on the number of redundant awards forms.) My question regarding this group has to do with what was originally part of this group, and what was added later. It might be my mistake but when Andreas had this group for sale in 12.07 it consisted of only the awards and box to hold them. There were no photos, Soldbuch or Urkunden. Now, years later when one of the bars was found for sale, the seller ADDED the photos and documents? What other connection is there between the documents/photos and the medal bar?

hmmmmm...mmmmm. What am I? Chopped liver? I responded. Actually I do know what you mean about views but no posts on threads I started. This could be the subject for a thread in the Lounge forum. In this instance (this thread) I held back until you posted and commented everything. I was watching it AS you were posting photos and if I would have responded my comments would have fallen INSIDE your posts. So I waited. Until this morning. I logged in my computer. Got my coffee. Two milks, no sugar. And eased into my chair. ...I did have some questions of a sequential nature.