Ulsterman

Komtur: Wait until RR sees THAT bar! He once did an OMSA article about the German Chinese troops and who got what bar, when and how.

I would suggest probably a Prussian attached to an Austrian medical unit on the eastern front for three reasons: 1. No LS medal (war time commission as OberArzt) of any kind 2. No Austrian military merit cross (handed out VERY commonly, even to Germans) and 3. No Austrian WW1 medal-despite the Luftschutz medal, which was authorized for Austrians ONLY after mid 1939 and required a period of service for its award. We know for a fact that highly competent Germans were attached to support elements at the Army, Corps and Divisional levels as sometimes amalgamated troops. Specialists were also attached to Viennese hospitals-eye Doctors, x-ray specialists (!) surgeons etc.. I know this for example because of an article about Jewish Doctors in the German army during the war. The creator of "Curious George" (a kids' story book about a monkey), H.A. Rey, for example, served as a surgical Unterofficer/Feldwebel (rank is unclear, his wife put "senior NCO in his lit. bio.) nurse assisting an eye specialist on the Russian Front in 1916-1918. He received the Prussian EK2, the German Red Cross medal and 'an Austrian medal'.

Almost everything said above is conjecture based more upon modern late 20th century collector mind-sets than historical evidence. The FACTS are: 1. Errors were made on bars. That is axiomatic. However, Germans have and had a passion for exactitude. These furled bars were made by PROFESSIONAL tailors and their assistants 99% of the time. Professionals knew the rules, because they got PAID to know them. It was embarrassing for a professional officer in the German army to be "out of order" (It still is in fact-ask our Bundeswehr members here). In the contemporary US army by contrast, nobody then and today really cares all that much. 2. Sometimes contemporary "errors" followed a pattern:e.g. Austrians and the HKx, flower wars medal confusion. 3. 99% ++ of the time, NO errors were made in the TR. Photographs demonstrate this. 4. Errors WERE and ARE made far more often by people who make fake bars (esp. in England in the 1960s-1970s). 5. Look closely at the Silesian Eagle... I would check that with a magnet and study it VERY hard. 6. Fakes also sometimes follow a pattern. 7. Again, what clear evidence is there that this bar is authentic? Whose collection did it come from or is there provenance? Saying something like "Looks like period construction" is a valid comment, BUT these have been made by fakers for over 40 years. Without inspecting the ribbons we can not tell. What I CAN tell you for certain is that I CAN make a bar like this. I have the tailoring skills and I have met others who can do it too. They even bought and used moth-eaten backing felt that was 50 years old. Caution is warranted, ESP. as this is a desirable Noncom. bar.

I was thinking something "foreign" also as a frack bar. This person was very unusual for a medico.

How do you know it's authentic? Seriously-

excellent! very clear indeed. Thanks. Muchos gracias!

Very interested. Can you post it here openly? We'd like to see it for history.

excellent! :cheers:

:cheers: and I have the photo(s) to prove it (well, most of it).

The NYT did not have pictures. Pity though.

Hi Kostas: Jeff Floyd is a world expert on US ODMs so his answer will be far more accurate and comprehensive than most anything I can tell you. But in a short answer, "no". While many US campaign medals were numbered, some were not. It depends upon the medal. Some even had the recipients' name engraved upon the medal (the navy long service medal for example). Also, keep in mind states also issued medals and so did veterans associations, which are also worth collecting, as many soldiers wore them as well. Almost all of Americas' wars have catalyzed a specific veteran's organization, which has issued its own members' medals. The Aztec Club medal for example, is not an official US medal, but is highly prized by collectors as it was only worn by Mexican War veterans. A good place to start is the OMSA.org web site. The database has many good pictures and there are all sorts of interesting articles about US medals over there. Also, Roger Bender's book on U.S. awards is an excellent starting off point. Lastly, there is an excellent US collectors forum out there. While its focus is 90% post World War One, some interesting early stuff does show up. It's free, so well worth signing up.

It's a national organization. I have a listing of all regional vet's assns. in Germany from the Baden Reservists book and their medals. This one however, is mentioned obliquely in a book about Germany' treatment of its war wounded/widows etc. from 1918-. I'll dig out the xerox. I'm certain a quick archive search on " Deutscher Frontkampfer Kreigerbund" will turn up something.

The Bund was formed @ 1920 after many veterans found that their front-line experiences had made them very different from the men who typically ran and belonged to grandpas' Kyfserbund. Memberships overlapped, but the KB was very assertive in demanding social services for war disabled vets and others who served. It had significant overlap with Social Democrat/socialist oriented political parties too.I mentally tend to suspect it was more of an FDP type of entity though. Many others of a more traditional/monarchist persuasion were in the Stahlhelm. One sees Stahlhelm photos with members wearing this cross-on very rare occasions. I doubt this group ever had more than @5-10,000 members at best. Somewhere in the Bundesarchives there exists a "coordination memo" of the SA/NSDAP from Spring 1933 that outlines who, what and how many were in this Bund.

#1 is superb. #2's meanderings I have followed for almost a decade now when Stogie outbid me. I briefly held it at Lowell @ 6-7 years ago. It's a small world. #3 is worth studying in detail. Note the stitching pattern.

Well, you are right-unfortunately. Still, $350-$500 for a BMVO4x-of which there were @ 14,000 awarded and at least @ 4,000 more used as extras etc. is a bit much I think. Those number compare with the Lubeck cross and its' much cheaper. I have seen and indeed bought one for @$150 within the last 3 months. My guess is that they are going to be cheaper as the economy worsens world-wide next year. It's up to the buyer. Many dealers, including those who sell (and troll) on eBay are keeping the perception of prices artificially high. Cdbx21 for example (who regularly snipes odd little things from me in the last second and then re-ribbons them) has a lot of chutzpah in my opinion asking $69 for a Hungarian Return of Transylvania medal, when others out there go for @$15 as is. He does seem to sell some stuff to people, so clearly his business model is, sort-of, working. However, the cabal that seemed intent on buying every EK2 (1914) in existence in North America seems to have driven the price for the 12th most common medal in the world to between $35 and $50.

What gives me pause is the Brunswick/Wurt. combo.. This requires some research. However, I have a photo of a priest in a Berlin hospital @ 1918-21 who is wearing a similar bar only reversed order and with a Hansa cross, not a Brunswick one (DRK last). Clearly the central clearing stations and massive hospitals that served as wounded depots - whence troops trains were routed to smaller or specialist hospitals catalyzed a lot of these bars. I found a very old New England JAMA article about a US Doctor recounting his time spent "on parole" at such a station in the Rhineland (he never specifies the city). While 99% of the article is about hospital administration or surgical techniques, he mentions an award ceremony of some sort.

Utterly, mind-blowing & fantastic pieces of history. Thanks for saving them here.

Good Lord! Never seen one before. Real silver too. Is the awardees' name supposed to be engraved on the reverse?

There were numbers of German immigrants to the USA who later served in the US forces in WW2. The most famous "non-military" guy was bon vivant, Harvard man Putzi Hanfstangel, who wen from being Hitlers' Public Relations man to FDR's German adviser in 5 short years. During WW1 there were a number of German immigrants who went home to fight for Germany and later were happy to surrender to US troops. I remember reading somewhere about how two stole a plane and flew into France to surrender.

Red cross medals were bestowed upon significant donors before the war. The campaign medal is interesting indeed. Apparently Rudolph the younger was a technocrat. The store sponsored several aircraft (expensive in those days) in the colonies.

splendid! It looks pristine.

Yeah-my error, I reversed the numbers.

True, but 100 years earlier they were there too, marching under Napoleons' Arc as he was sent off to Elba.

From the NYT of 9/22/1914: "The Petit Gironde has published a dispatch from Verdun setting forth that french soldiers near that point found a valise belonging to a Prussian officer containing a quantity of little iron crosses strung on black and white ribbons bearing the inscription: 1814-1914". These presumably were to have been distributed to German soldiers after the entry of the German army into Paris" -shows how the newspapers got it wrong in those days too and that German production of EKs was very,very swift.

I REALLY want to hear what RR says about #7. I'll buy #6 if you're willing to sell it (and I bet you aren't) Was that once in the Stogie collection? The bottom one merits a discussion. My internal alarm bells are ringing. Nice haul. You are having a GREAT month Paul.