Ulsterman

economical officer? Would that be an ordinance/commissary official?

Outstanding!

Well, yes. of course. why whose feelings have been bruised? certainly not mine and I reckon Irishgunner is bullet proof. Chris?

Barbara Tuchman: "The Proud Tower" and "The Guns of August" are well worth reading. Also, Fritz Fischer and his critics are dead on point. Fischer was a conservative who pretty much proved that the German"military-aristocracy" really were the cause of the war and the subsequent tsunami of human misery. the USA was not really part of this equation, as its seizure of the Philippines was strongly opposed by the majority of Americans until Kipling's poem, "Take Up the White Mans' Burden" was published. despite what some trendy 'historians' have recently written, the US foreign policy was neutral, disengaged and focused upon South America, with a mild shrug of "so what" at Pacific shenanigans. One might also confidently state that Alfred T Mahans' book was the catalyst since the Kaiser and Tirpitz both thought it almost biblical. after Tsushima, most of the European nations conceded German control of the Baltic and indeed, this was even a factor in the establishment of the Reichsmarine by the Versailles Treaty. One might argue that this is de facto the case even today.

I'll put up some Bushmils.

Much like the Warsaw Pact wasn't really a threat in the Cold War? So the fleet was only there to protect Germanys' vital trade with Togo and Samoa? They were smart and backed down in Manilla in 1898 though. I reckon Dewey would've destroyed their ships in an afternoon had the Admiral been fool enough to take Tirpitzs'' advice.

Hope isn't a plan? hmmmmmmm....but that's the American way......but I wade into contemporary politics...sorry. To be historical, of course Chaimberlain was a fool and a coward and he lived long enough to see himself derided as such by pretty much everyone. But he was trying to avert a war and many people over the world thought the Sudetens were actually German. There was of course a bit of a parallel with The Balkans a couple of decades ago.

It's German and belongs to another club member here....so I'll leave it to him to explain. it is lovely though. Mr Otto has sent me even more stuff on Brophy.

My point is , yes...lots of blame for the outbreak...but to my mind, 55% was the Germans, 45% the Russians and ultimately, 100% the Serbs ...initially.... But bottom line, the Kaiser didn't have to give the a Austro Hungarians a blank check. The Russians however, were stupid enough to back Serbia almost unconditionally. The Austrians got almost everything they asked for in their demands and invaded anyway. But bottom line, the Germans didn't have to invade Belgium and bring in the British. they also didn't need the worlds' greatest navy. Their empire was pathetic, a financial loss leader and less than 30 years old...."comprising of backwater nowheres" to quote Teddy Roosevelt. Consider events had the Schlieffen Plan not been undertaken....no British or Belgian involvement. Massive casualties and then stalemate in central France followed by HUGE hammer blows against a weak Russia and a Russian collapse probably by early 1916. Fritz Fischers' excellent books are well worth-reading on this topic. The British had a naval world strategy in place for over 250+ years and needed it to maintain their vast empire (legitimate or not) . The Germans built their fleet within a single generation as a confluence of three major factors...industrialists and workers wanting profits/ work, nationalists wanting prestige and status for their new empire and lastly many individuals eager to have the German officer corps social status. Tirpitz insisted that navy officers have the social status of cavalry and Guard officers...which is why engineer officers and Deck officers were considered Uber-NCOs for 35 years . One can see German political evolution in that 6 piece medal bar on ebay.de right now....where the officers' LS medal was only granted to Deck officers and Inginieur officers AFTER the Weimar Republic was established, despite the fact that they were probably THE most important people actually on the ships. " Scotty...I need more power"........."So wird es Mein Executive-Offizier. "

Oh? Sounds as if you are walking down the road of , ' it was all the fault of the United States that World War One' broke out. Heh heh. surely you are not equating Neville Chamberlains' naïveté and gross stupidity with the craven boot licking and Nazi adherence of so many of the old German army officer corps? bottom line, the Kaiser made the decision to invade Belgium and was irate that the British. Had the audacity to oppose his übermenschen.. The German military Command had made the decision to strike hard west because that was their only option given the train schedules and the overwhelming size of the Russian army. By 1915 they knew they couldn't win, but made the decision to fight on so as to consolidate internal political control, e.g. Bismarckian Junkerdom. They also advocated the mass executions and "Shrecklickkeit" during their invasions of France and Belgium, where one can still see the graves of 9 month old babies shot by German soldiers in 1914. The French and British troops on the ground only did such things in places like their colonies and rarely even then. The Germans built most of their fleet under Kaiser Bill, as a direct challenge to the power and prestige of the British Empire...for no other reason than ego..and employment at home of course. pity they didn't pay for it, but took out loans. the Luxury Fleet was a phrase used by Tirpitz, architect of the German navy's expansion and also Bethman Holweg and is the title of Holgar Herwigs' excellent book on the subject. For a parallel development.......watch the growth of the PRCs' fleet today. They are building a lot of aircraft carriers in China these days ....and maybe soon in Japan.

Me too...

There is LOTs of blame for the outbreak of the war, train timetables, the Russians, French exuberance........but after the end of 1915 I think that the German Army Command bears the vast brunt of the blame for the perpetuation of the war. They knew they couldn't win, but knew if they "lost" it was the end of Junkerdom and the Bismarckian empire. They even discussed it in secret strategic sessions. To my mind men like Hindenburg, Tirpitz, Luddendorf , Mackensen, the Hohenzollerns et al.on the army staff at the war conferences in the winter of 1915/16 should have gone to the wall. I know that sounds a bit Boonzaierish, but like I said, they knew they'd lost and they had ample opportunities to make peace in 1916, 1917 and even in 1918...... and rejected them all. Thirty years later they all followed Hitler, cravenly once they discovered he was not kidding and perfectly capable of executing them and their families.....and World War Two was the result.

Speechless I am. :0

Well, having gone to school with a great many f the BBC elite, there is certainly a culture of "Europeanism" and of " coolness" that belittles or degrades Britains' past. I always got the feeling that what these people really wanted was to be American East Coast Democrats and indeed many try desperately to then come to the USA. New York City and the Jon Stewart show seems to be the career goal of every aspiring BBC maven. It reminds me of Tom Sharps' remarks that, "they as a generation, lost their confidence". The UK Education Secretary's remarks are also a useful weapon to a political group in the UK that truly hate his educational reforms. But I gotta say, the German, esp. Prussian social elites were the cause and perpetuators of the war to my mind. Fritz Fisher was dead right. It's a fascinating and very complicated historical discussion, but as a class of people with shared social and political attitudes, iit was the pseudo-aristocratic Germans who kept the bloodshed going, ignored the strategic and social implications of total war (which European pacifists and Communists had accurately foretold decades before 1914) and sponsored things like the Luxury Fleet. Then, 20 years later these were the people who cheerfully gave power to Hitler and cheerfully helped him send kids to death camps and start another war.

ah! it wasn't me then. I figured it was my iPad playing up again. Email sent. Danke. By the way, I hope a BDOScarticlecwill be written on this with these names?

Yes I am. I did not realize his " mechanics" career counted as regular service. I also noted his war service and figured it counted towards his LS medal because I noted the date of his award and counted backwards. Even more enlightening....ESP. Given his release on 12.12.19 from the Baltic Freikorps! I just learned that Freikorps service counted towards the Wehrmacht LS medal.

Pretty cool medal.

Pretty cool. I like how he got the LS medal for 2x2+1 time as a Lt.dR.

I agree...although the nose fell off the old man a few years ago. I often see them engraved with the recipients' name.

Mind you, that Deck officer/MarineIngenierofficers' 6 medal spange is sweet too.

Someone really wanted it. As research improves...prices go up and up.....I miss the old days.

I think they continued to award them during the war. as I recall Adolf, who was a war volunteer, got his LS medal in 1918/19? Howver, in looking at lots of Bavarian Militaerpasses I don't recall seeing LS awards until demobilization. Chris? Joe Imwalle? you guys have the docs...whadda you think?

wOW! Outstanding and super rare!

Ok I am registered, but can not get in. where is the list? is it on the forum?

How big is it? Any chance it's a fez badge?