GreyC

Hi just a few remarks to what Utgardloki wrote: 1) Sütterlin-Schrift was not introduced to Prussian schools till 1915 and only replaced the former type of writing (old German current) slowly, so all the writing from letters and postcards etc. originating in WW1 are NOT Sütterlin (Utagrdloki didn´t say that, but just to make sure, as 1911 was only the date the Prussian Ministry asked Sütterlin to devise a new script). 2) After the Normalschrift-Erlaß Antiqua was to replace the Schwalbacher bit by bit, not on the spot. It was also intended first for official govenment and party (NSDAP) use, then for school and then for others. Journals and books printed for distribution in foreign states had priority with the conversion, as it was rightly presumed, that it would be easier for foreigners to read Antiqua. So the complete conversion to Antiqua in all publication took a while. 3) Names in official documents, especially in civil registry office documents were (to my knowledge) always in Latin current. GreyC

For me he is Bavarian, as he wears the Bavarian medal in front of the EKII. If he wears a Prussian simplified Feldrock I can´t say.The Aschinger Borte or Bayerische (Kennzeichen)borte was introduced on 31.03.1916. On 10.12.1917 the Borte was shortened. GreyC

The state I live in has a museum that holds a fine collection of almost all medals state and privately issued from that state and the department is led by a very knowledable guy who helped me once with aquery. Maybe the city museum of Hannover has something similar? GreyC (but you may call me Graham ?

Interesting. The only Staatskalender I have is from 1834, as ancestors worked for the state at that time. I thought he might have been listed in his capacity as Ritter with his Gut. But the 18th century is a bit early for me, so thanks for filling me in. GreYC

The colour of the ribbon seems dark blue. Would that point to a certain state? And wouldn´t his medals be listed in the Hannoversches Staatshandbuch or Kalender? GreyC

Augenleiden (Nachtblindheit) GreyC

Interesting, but still not to be found under any of these first names in loss-list. Where did you find the birthdate? Best, GreyC

This is an old thread, but maybe some of you read this by chance. In that thread reasonable doubt was voiced with regards to authenticity of the document. After careful examination I can add two points that were not mentioned before and which nurture the doubt: In the document his parents are given as Ferdinand and Marie Bothke, the profession of the father is given as architect, as place of resindency of parents Berlin-Charlottenburg. I checked the Berlin Adressbooks for 1908, the date Paul Bothke began service in the army, 1914 and 1918/19. NO Ferdinand Bothke listed in all of Berlin, let alone Charlottenburg. Also, I checked for Ferdinand B. in a large list of over 23.000 architects active in Germany in the 19th and 20th century NO Ferdinand Bothke. Does not mean the Kriegsstammrollenauszug is faked, but should add doubt. ALSO: A Verwundetenabzeichen in silber (woundbadge in silver) is noted as being awarded to him. However all the hospital stints which are listed are because of Mittelohrentzündung and the like (inflammation of the middle ear) this is not something you got the Verwundetenabzeichen for! More doubt! I checked the loss lists. For getting a woundbadge in silver at least three certified WIA incidents had to occur. There is only one Paul Bothke listed once, and he is from Tilsit, not Arendswalde as given in the document. Almost insurmountable doubt. GreyC

Thanks for the 2nd letter which shows quite well the reality of war and how it was handled. I just hope that both recipents of the different letters did not compare the cause of death. That might have made them doubt the descriptions of the officers. GreyC

The lieutnant´s name is Schnackenberg. GreyC

That is well possible, you´d have to consult the Dienstalterslisten for that period. Maybe a member of the forum has access to them. I don´t, unfortunately. Often the officers were released from the service with one rank below and awarded the next higher one on exit. So you´d have to look for Oberstleutnants as well. GreyC

The Ehrenrangliste has him as Major at the outset of the war and as Oberst a.D. in 1926 with no other units given. GreyC

Ludwig G(eor)g Holnstein GreyC

Hi, Friedrich Henning opened his studio in Plön shortly after 1860. The design of the back of your photograph dates it to after 1881 and before 1890. GreyC

Russian origin. GreyC

Yes, ArHo, because he is Saxon, the medals take precedence. Christophe, Andreas and I were just asking, because the abbr. in the Rangliste for that order is VR1KD. Not the one you used. But now, we know what you meant and all is well. Here is a little surprise for you. This photo was taken after 1876 and not later than 1883. Note that he is only wearing the EKII and all the loops in the Attila are empty. But he is in the uniform of 19th Husar Regiment that was given out from 1876. GreyC

Thank you! So it´s really VR1KD! GreyC

Hi Christophe, Ernst Milster had his studio at UdL 13 from 1866-1874. In 1874 he sold his studio and his successors kept this address till 1881. If it doesn´t say Milster Nachf(olger) on the reverse. and because of the design of the CDV and the uniform, which still shows him in the Saxon colors, I´d say the photo was taken in the mid 1870s. Unfortunately, I can not find what SV3X stands for. Can you tell us what the abbreviation stands for? GreyC

Hello Christophe, can you tell me the address of the photo-studio Milster? Thank you! GreyC

Agree, very nice. As I only collect postcards and photos, here two from my collection:

The officer´s Litewka was only to be worn out of duty or inside while on duty. During war time combined with fieldgrey trousers. Buttons could be either silver or gold. Two rows of 6 buttons each, 16cm apart. Note the sometimes subtle differences to the Kleiner Rock, esp. w regards to pockets. Best, GreyC

Mindestens 1935 war Zirkler Führer des Pioniersturmbanns der SA der SA Brigade 151 Saarbrücken, früher Brigade 51. Zudem war er mindestens 1939 Wirtschaftsbeauftragter des Landkreises Saarbrücken. 1958 noch unter den Lebenden als Leiter des Vogelschutzbundes dort.

Yes, the two officers in the middle of the 2nd row definitely wear the uniforms of the Friedensheer as prescribed prior to 5th May 1919 whereas the others seem to have uniforms worn in imperial period yet with the Ärmelscheiben (oval unitpatches) of the Vorläufige Reichswehr. Interesting! GreyC

Merci! GreyC

Hi Chris, can you do a high res detail scan of the areas marked in pink in the photo. I suspect they are Armspiegel of the Vorläufige Reichswehr, denoting the unit. The cuff marked in black is the rank designation in the style of Vorläufige Reichswehr, and in yellow the string on the shoulder the corresponding rank insignium. They were not worn over a longer period of time, so (especially in the early phase) not all changed their uniform to new rank insignia at once. If I remember correctly, the Armscheiben were worn on both arms. GreyC