laurentius

Dear Lukasz, I don't think the painting is detailed enough to establish which order is represented, however, if I had to make a guess I would choose the Saxon Merit Order (Sächsiche Verdienstorden) or the Order of the Netherlands Lion (Orde van de Nederlandse leeuw). What I find quite peculiar is that the lower left area of the cross seems to have something which might be identified as a swordhilt (which would rule out the Order of the Netherlands Lion), however, the lower right side seems to miss this hilt-like device. Kind regards, Laurentius

Bernhard was born a 'Graf', he got the title 'Prins' on the day of his wedding, together with the predicate 'Koninklijke Hoogheid'. It would seem they aren't comparable, simply because the English language seems to miss a certain depth. It's the same with castles really. In English you have Castle or Palace, whilst in German there are a 1001 ways to describe such buildings.

Dear fellow collectors, When doing some research I came across the title Fürst and the title Prinz, which in English is translated into prince (Fürstlicher Hausorden von Hohenzollern/ Princely House Order of Hohenzollern). However, in Germany there are Fürsten (Fürst zu Bentheim und Steinfurt) and Prinzen (Prinz zu Sayn-Wittgenstein). Although these titles are translated to the same rank in English, are these ranks essentially the same? What makes them different and what was the different standing of the Fürsten and the Prinzen? And the follow-up question, is the Dutch rank of Vorst equal to the German rank of Fürst? Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

Wouldn't be too much to ask I think ?

Hmmm, maybe an Oberleutnant from Köpenick? That's in Berlin after all ??. Shame that the officer portraited wears a uniform that didn't exist. It makes me wonder, since the painting is around 100 years old, as can be seen from wear and tear on the canvas, why the soldier portraited wears a uniform that didn't exist. Was it perhaps an amalgamation of different uniformparts into something freikorps-y or perhaps nothing more than patriotika? I am grateful nonetheless for your help Andy, couldn't have done it without you. Kind regards, Laurentius

But that leaves the question, what's in the first place? Looks a bit blue. My guess would be something Wurttembergian.

Hello Peter, This isn't necessarily true, there were some oberleutnants who received the RAO4 but you also had colonels who had slaved away for 20 years before they got their RAO4. 3rd class could mean a full colonel yes, but it could also be higher than that. I agree that the person to whom this ribbonbar belonged most likely received the 2nd class. Yes, but only if he was Prussian, if he wasn't Prussian I believe the bow was given after having held the class for a number of years. I'm not entirely sure about this though, so the input of someone who collects RAO's would be appreciated. I hope this helps. Kind regards, Laurentius

The Military Order of William was not presented to politicians at this time anymore. Even if it was the Order of William he would have received the commander's cross rather than the grandcross. Emperor Wilhelm II was the last foreign royal to receive the Military Order of William in 1893 (I might be a few years off here). Although it is generally true that people wear the highest order from the country they are visiting this is something which I have never seen a French president do. I can only recall them wearing the grandcross of the Legion D'Honneur, of which the French president is the figurehead. President Mac Mahon, who was President of France during the 1870's started this tradition, of wearing the Grandcross everywhere he went, also when visiting foreign countries. This is why I asked what kind of decoration Fallières is wearing here, that would made him ignore this unofficial official rule.

Dear fellow collectors, I received this picture today of president Fallières together with Queen Wilhelmina of the Netherlands during his statevisit to the Netherlands. It seemed rather unusual to me that he, in his position as the French President, is not wearing the grandcross of the Legion D'Honneur, but rather another order. Would someone be able to enlighten me as to what he is wearing? I suspect a Dutch Order of the Netherlands Lion. Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

Dear Andy, here are several pictures, which will hopefully bring us to a conclusion Here are the pictures you requested, I have also taken photo's of the boots, the belt and the visor, which doesn't seem to have a chinstrap as we would usually see. Ever since your last post I have been thinking Andy, maybe this isn't a portrait, as I always assumed, but rather just a painting, to be sold. I'm looking forward to your thoughts. Kind regards, Laurentius

Here you go Andy. What I always presumed to be a small pip turned out to be the button, which fixes the shoulderboard to the uniform. Kind regards, Laurentius

Always those cheeky Saxons ? Nice Addition Christophe

Thank you very much ErWeSa, shame we won't find out about our Oblt, but it's nice to know who the painter was. I'll have a look on the internet, maybe this Albert Wittrin made more paintings. Kind regards, Laurentius

Thank you Andy, I didn't know he was footartillery, good to know. Although Berlin 1921 is a bit hard to read, it clearly says 'Wittrin', so he most likely isn't Leutnant Witte.

Dear fellow collectors, last november I bought this lovely painting of an Oberleutnant in FAR 5 with EK1. In the rightbottom corner is either the name of the painter or the name of the officer. It is signed ''A. Wittrin, Berlin 1921''. I know the chance is a small one, but would one of the collectors here with access to the ranklists be willing to have a look for me? Maybe there is more info on him. Kind regards and thanks in advance, Laurentius

Dear JohanH, I fear this chain can't be identified. Only the EK, MMVK and the Order of the White Rose would show up in the ranklists and I know that there were several officers with that combination. We have nothing to narrow it down. Kind regards, Laurentius

Dear Bilylev, My abbreviationskills aren't great either, but if I'm not mistaken he has a johanniter-orden, Prussian Crown Order 2nd class, EK1, Order of Albrecht the Bear commanderscross, Zähringen Löwe commanderscross, Bavarian Military Merit Order 2nd class, Order of Henry the Lion commanderscross, Hessian Philipsorden, Greifenorden commanderscross, Prussian Order of the Red Eagle 3rd class, Hohenzollern Ehrenkreuz commanderscross, Albrechtsorden 1st class. Order of the White Falcon 1st class, I don't know the last 7 abbreviations. You are correct, ÖEK3 is the Austrian Order of the Iron Crown. Hope this is a helpful beginning, kind regards, Laurentius

This could be, although I'm not entirely convinced, given the slender nature of the arms of the cross. It would be incorrect that a wartime decoration be worn behind the centenary medal. Given the shape and size of the medal I also doubt this is a OK2. I wonder when this picture was taken, if it were to be taken after 1922 it would mean that he had gotten another decoration. Had the picture been taken in 1922 or before it could be an unofficial award. Perhaps something Freikorps/Kriegerverein related?

I agree

It's a Hessian Order of Phillip the Magnanimous

Maybe the Hohenzollern honourcross with swords and crown? That would match the device and the ribbon

I agree with Dave. For the last ribbon I was thinking about the Finnish freedomcross or perhaps the Olympia-medaille. The picture is post-1933. We are missing the FEK, so I'm not 100% on board with the Olympia-medaille. Kind regards, Laurentius

Lovely painting Claudio, although I think the hanseatic cross is from Bremen rather than Hamburg. A Bavarian with several orders and a zentenarenmedaille should be easy to identify. Fingers crossed. Kind regards, Laurentius

I agree, both the cross and the ribbon show convincing similarities.

To use devices was often a choice made by the owner, not something which was regulated. There were lots of differences between the post-1933 regulations (which were basically an amendment of the Prussian regulations) and the Bavarian wartime regulations. Rick L used to have a list of Bavarian precedence on WAF, which I sadly cannot find at the moment, however, Wartime awards, even from different states, had precedence over peacetime awards from their own state. The problem with ribbonbars and medalbars in general is that one can usually find an example of every possible combination one can think of. Kind regards, Laurentius