Dave Danner

There are and were plenty of sergeants with 3-4 years of service. It is the average time-in-service that is higher. If 1000 people are promoted to E-5, and the average is 4.5 years, there will be a number of soldiers with 3 years in and a number closer to six. And 1970, of course, was a war year. During wartime service, time-in-service and time-in-grade formalities go out the window. I had a friend who was commissioned in 1940 and was a Lt. Colonel by the winter of 1944-45. I think I have almost everyone in the Army beat on one record, though. I entered the Army as a PFC/E-3 and I had exactly one day of time-in-service when I was promoted to Specialist/E-4. I made E-5 a little over a year and a half later and O-1 a few months after that. I perused a few Chief Master Sergeant bios on a few Air Force command websites to see some "typical" career progressions (actually a little atypical, since these guys would be the cream of the crop) from the 1980s on. They typically enlisted around 1981-1984 and went to the two initial leadership schools within the timeframe I noted. For example: Chief Master Sergeant Todd Salzman, 22nd Air Refueling Wing: 1982 - Enlisted as Airman 1st Class 1984 - NCO Preparatory Course 1984 - Sr. Airman 1985 - Sergeant 1987 - Staff Sergeant 1987 - NCO Leadership School 1991 - Technical Sergeant 1992 - NCO Academy 1997 - Master Sergeant 2000 - Senior NCO Academy 2000 - Senior Master Sergeant 2004 - Chief Master Sergeant Chief Master Sergeant Karl Sagstetter, Air University, Maxwell Air Force Base: 1981 - Enlisted as Airman 1982 - Airman First Class 1984 - Sr. Airman 1984 - NCO Preparatory Course 1985 - Staff Sergeant 1988 - NCO Leadership School 1990 - Technical Sergeant 1990 - NCO Academy 1993 - Master Sergeant 1996 - Senior Master Sergeant 1997 - Senior NCO Academy 1999 - Chief Master Sergeant Chief Master Sergeant Paul A. Sikora, Jr., 377th Air Base Wing: 1981 - Enlisted as Airman 1982 - Airman First Class 1983 - Senior Airman 1983 - NCO Preparatory Course 1985 - Staff Sergeant 1985 - NCO Leadership School 1988 - Technical Sergeant 1988 - NCO Academy 1994 - Master Sergeant 1997 - Senior NCO Academy 1998 - Senior Master Sergeant 2000 - Chief Master Sergeant Chief Master Sergeant Jerry Sutton, 48th Fighter Wing 1984 - Enlisted as Airman 1985 - Airman First Class 1987 - Senior Airman 1988 - NCO Preparatory Course 1988 - Sergeant 1989 - Staff Sergeant 1990 - NCO Leadership School 1992 - Technical Sergeant 1994 - NCO Academy 1994 - Master Sergeant 1999 - Senior NCO Academy 1999 - Senior Master Sergeant 2002 - Chief Master Sergeant There are some discrepancies in career progression partly because the Air Force changed its rank structure at some point, eliminating the rank of Sergeant (you now go straight from Sr. Airman to Staff Sergeant). Here are a few others: http://www.af.mil/library/biographies/bio.asp?bioID=6561 http://www.incirlik.af.mil/html/allen.htm http://www.yokota.af.mil/Leadership/USFJCommandChief/ http://www.yokota.af.mil/Leadership/AWCommandChief/ http://www.elmendorf.af.mil/11af/webdocs/11AFCCCbio.mht http://www.andersen.af.mil/36AEW/36pa/Bios/CMSWicks.htm http://www.beale.af.mil/biographies/9RWccmsbio.asp http://www.buckley.af.mil/bio_cmd_chief.htm

After four years of service, the typical Army or Air Force enlisted man is not a junior NCO. The average time-in-service for promotion to E-5 in all the services is over four years, so at four years of service, most soldiers. sailors, airmen and Marines are E-4s. Air Force E-4s (Senior Airmen) are not NCOs. The majority of Army E-4s are Specialists, who are not NCOs, while only a minority are Corporals, who are NCOs. In the Navy and Marine Corps, E-4s are junior NCOs - Petty officers 3rd class in the Navy and Corporals in the Army. Regarding the Air Force group that started this, the person was not a four-years and out, as speculated. The oak leaf cluster on the NCO Professional Military Education Graduate Ribbon indicates at least two eligible leadership schools, most likely the NCO Preparatory Course and the Airman Leadership School. You have to have a minumum of 48 months time in service to attend the latter, and 5-6 years of service is typical. The lack of a cluster on the Air Force Good Conduct Medal means either he did something to not earn a second award or he got out at just under six years. And this amount of fruit salad would be atypical for other services, especially the Marine Corps. Attached is an example of an associate of mine: a Specialist (E-4) in the early to mid-1990s in an elite unit (3rd Ranger Battalion). He is a combat veteran (note the Purple Heart and Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal) with a grand total of five ribbons. But for going to the Mog and getting himself wounded, he would have had 2-3 ribbons - Army Achievement Medal, National Defense Service Medal and Army Service Ribbon. I think he went to pull-dick (PLDC, the Army's junior NCO course) after this photo was taken, so you could add the Army NCO Professional Development Ribbon as well.

An eyelet is a hole through an object. Cheap medals and medallions, such as some regimental commemoratives, have eyelets right through the medallion. Shoes with laces have eyelets. The metal ring around the eyelet on a shoe, BTW, is a grommet. And an aglet is the sheath (often plastic) around a string or lace to make it easier to pass through the eyelet. The ?se has an eyelet - the hole through which the ring passes - but is not itself an eyelet.

?se means "loop" or "eye"; for our purposes, suspension loop or suspension ring is more correct. Suspension knob is probably more appropriate for thicker ones such as ball or barrel suspensions.

The Army Service Ribbon is awarded on completion of advanced individual training, not BCT. Everyone gets a marksmanship badge because everyone is required to qualify - which badge you get - Marksman, Sharpshooter or Expert - depends on how well you shoot. The NDSM is awarded for serving on active duty during a designated crisis period, so you actually "earned" it before you got out of basic.

To be a little clearer: if you have a bar with a bronze and a silver FAM, it can mean either (i) he received the bronze as a private or a Gefreiter and the silver as an NCO, i.e., each roughly equivalent to an Iron Cross 2nd Class for those ranks, or (ii) he received the silver as a second award for further acts of bravery or merit, so it would be roughly equivalent to an Iron Cross 2nd Class and a 1st Class. The sFAM was either a first award for NCOs or a second award for privates, Gefreiten who already had a brFAM. NCOs who already had the sFAM as a first award might receive the Ehrenkreuz mit Schwertern as a second award for further acts of heroism or merit.

"An" army doctor - yes. "The" army doctor: lt. (rez) medic Mircea Bruteanu. http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...ead.php?t=82623

If it is a World War One award, decidedly rare. From 1914 to 1919: Golden Merit Cross with Swords - 166Golden Merit Cross - 21Silver Merit Cross with Swords - 132Silver Merit Cross - 59

This site has a pretty good overview of patches, including divisions, corps, etc.: http://sapeur14.free.fr/ma%20collection/insignes/accueil.htm This a commercial site, but it has a huge variety of badges and insignia, so it makes a pretty good reference: http://www.i-m-l.com/

For reference or purchase?

In the other thread where these medals came up a few months' back, I provided a link to the latest versions of the regulations governing the medal. http://www.bo.sga.defense.gouv.fr/pdf/2004...6/6054-6076.pdf http://www.bo.sga.defense.gouv.fr/pdf/2005...2/2953-2975.pdf

The one thing I have of note is the different styles of medal. I also have a silver version in the second style, but I don't have a scan of it.

It isn't Turkish. It a Nichan Iftikhar (Order of Glory) from Tunisia.

Geopolitical realities were driving Prussia/Germany and England into rivalry, so it would be overstating the case to focus on personalities. But another interesting variant of what you note is what would have happened had Kaiser Friedrich III not died so soon. As Victoria's son-in-law, married to her eldest daughter, he was closer to her than his son Wilhelm II ever would be. Put him on the throne from 1888 to 1901, when both Queen Victoria and his widow died, and you have ten plus years where England and Germany might not have drifted as far apart. Of course, Belgium, Romania, Greece and Russia also had German rulers or close relationships to German ruling houses, but that didn't stop them from joining the Allies.

If you grant the "black-white" only, it could also be a 1914 EK2 and a colonial Military Decoration 2nd Class. However, I think a longer-serving guy with colonial service would probably be more likely to go by the book and have his other awards.

It gets creepier. The Grand Duchess of Hesse when the Victoria Diamond Jubilee Medal was issued in 1897, Grand Duke Ernst Ludwig's wife, was Victoria Melita of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha, Princess of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. She too was Queen Victoria's granddaughter. Go here - http://lafayette.150m.com/sax1298a.html - for a cool picture of the heir to the Saxon throne, Friedrich August III, and several German officers and a British officer all sporting the Diamond Jubilee Medal. Note that whoever maintains that site has a lot of unknowns on that page. The collective brain trust here could probably fill in the blanks.

Ernst Ludwig, Grand Duke of Hesse and by Rhine (Gro?herzog von Hessen und bei Rhein), was also Queen Victoria's grandson.

There were 144 awards of the Cross 3rd Class with Crown and Swords between 1914 and 1920, primarily to Majors (which given the gilt swords would also fit with a Z?hringer L?wen Knight 1st Class with Swords (514-525 awards in WW1).

Princely House Order of Hohenzollern Cross 3rd Class with Crown and Swords. The narrowly tapering base of the crown is consistent with the princely crown of Hohenzollern. The OZL is also consistent with an officer in F?silier-Regiment F?rst Karl Anton von Hohenzollern (Hohenzollernsches) Nr.40.

Assuming you mean Lippe-Detmold, to be accurate there weren't two classes. The decoration suspended from a ribbon, analogous to an EK2, was the War Merit Cross (Kriegsverdienstkreuz). The pinback decoration, analogous to an EK1, was the War Honor Cross for Heroic Deeds (Kriegsehrenkreuz f?r heldenm?tige Tat). The War Honor Cross for Heroic Deeds was not a higher class of the War Merit Cross. Its award criteria were slightly different and there was no requirement that you have the War Merit Cross before you were eligible for the War Honor Cross for Heroic Deeds. As for Schaumburg-Lippe, the Cross for Loyal Service (Kreuz f?r treue Dienste) also only came in one class. The pinback version wasn't a higher class, but a special version of the cross for members of ruling houses. That didn't seem to stop a lot of these from being made after the war and also sold as "1st Class" versions of the Cross for Loyal Service.

With Brunswick, however, it is the case that the pre-1918 Kriegsverdienstkreuz was officially redesignated the KVK 2. Klasse. Anhalt's Friedrichkreuz was just that. Unless someone has evidence of a Princely Decree or other pre-abdication regulation bifurcating the award, referring to it as a 2nd Class only creates the confusion noted above. The proliferation of post-war "1st Classes" notwithstanding.

Maj. Gen. Robert T. Frederick, the commander of the First Special Service Force, received eight Purple Hearts in World War II, along with two DSCs. Lt. Col. Richard J. Buck also received eight Purple Hearts - 4 in Korea and 4 in Vietnam. Col. David Hackworth also received eight Purple Hearts (4 in Korea and 4 in Vietnam), plus two DSCs and 10 Silver Stars. Medal of Honor recipients Col. Robert L. Howard and Capt. Joe Ronnie Hooper both received eight Purple Hearts during the Vietnam War. There may be at least one other with eight ? a 2002 article from the Topeka Capital-Journal refers to Master Sergeant Roy Hamilton having received one in Korea and seven in Vietnam ? but I can't find confirmation. Medal of Honor recipient Lt. Col. Matt Urban received seven Purple Hearts in World War II. 1st Lt. G. Murl Conner also received seven Purple Hearts in World War II and there is a drive ongoing to elevate his DSC to a Medal of Honor. There is also a move in this regard on behalf of Maj. Gabriel Navarrete, who received the DSC and seven Purple Hearts with the 36th Infantry Division in Italy. DSC recipient Col. Patrick N. Delavan received two Purple Hearts in Korea and 5 in Vietnam. Self-described "The Veteran's Advocate" Pat Kiggins indicates that he received seven Purple Hearts in Vietnam. Another Vietnam veteran, Capt. David Christian, also received seven, as did Staff Sergeant Patrick James Caffrey. There are others with seven Purple Hearts out there as well.

One additional note. He was raised to the Adelstand in 1905. This was the same year that Bernhard von B?low was raised to F?rst. This was on the occasion of Crown Prince Wilhelm's marriage, so M?ller's elevation was probably related.

Theodor Adolf von M?ller was born 10 August 1840 and died 6 December 1925. He was the only child of Friedrich Wilhelm Adolph M?ller (20.5.1805-25.7.1878) and Henriette Friederike W?rmann (17.8.1808-29.6.1848), so the Lt. z. S is not his nephew. He was Prussian Trade Minister from 1901 to 1905, in the first term of Prime Minister and German Chancellor Bernhard von B?low. He was a representative from the National Liberal Party (Nationalliberale Partei). The Frau Staatsminister was Karoline Eleonore Tiemann (15.7.1853-16.11.1935). Their eldest daughter Irmgard Auguste Elfriede von M?ller (born 16.2.1874) died two months before him on 14 October 1925. Her eldest son Uffz.d.R. Theodor Gottfried Oswald Bendemann was KIA 13 February 1945. First son Rittm.d.R. Gerhard Bernhard Carl von M?ller was born on 14 April 1876. I don't see his date of death. His son Gerd was KIA in Biala-Podlaska on 4 June 1942. Second daughter Hedwig Caroline Emilie von M?ller (15.8.1877-6.10.1963) was the second wife of Hans-Otto Arthur Freiherr von Soden (1881-1945), Professor of Theology at the University of Marburg and a Divisionspfarrer. He was the author of Die Cyprianische Briefsammlung: Geschichte ihrer Entstehung und ?berlieferung and editor of Das lateinische Neue Testament in Afrika zur Zeit Cyprians: nach Bibelhandschriften und V?terzeugnissen. His collected writings were published after his death as Urchristentum und Geschichte (1951). Second son was Oswald Friedrich Werner von M?ller (7.7.1879-21.6.1932). He was a surgeon and obstetrician and a Stabsarzt d.R. Third son was Theo (Theodor Adolf) von M?ller (112.1881-28.5.1887) who died at age 6. Third daughter was Magdalena Auguste Linda von M?ller (13.2.1883-19.1.1919), who was the first wife of the aforementioned Hans-Otto Frhr. von Soden. Hedwig married Hans-Otto on 24 August 1920, a little over a year and a half after her little sister's death. Fourth daughter was Auguste Bertha Ottilie von M?ller (14.8.1884-?), married to Robert Berthold Kahl, an architect and Hauptmann d.R. Fourth son was the Berthold August Arnold von M?ller, born 29 August 1888, in Rick's excerpt above. As the excerpt notes, he was a Ph.D. and was killed in action on 28 June 1915 as an Uffz. d.R. Fifth son was Hptm. d.R. Roland Friedrich Albert von M?ller (4.6.1893-11.2.1957), who appears to have run the family business after Gerhard's son Gerd was killed in action. Historical documents on the family business may be found here. The company is still around: http://www.moellergroup.com/

Kind of like this: