peter monahan

922F Yes, thank you for that extremely useful and complete answer. Do you perchance read Arabic yourself, should a similar question come up in the future? I am assuming that Dave [post #2] may do, or has a translation programme, but he hasn't chimed in again since his very helpful initial post. Peter

Brian I was having a similar difficulty with my last laptop - no access to Bold,Underline, Italic, smileys or anything but a plain text box - and found that changing from Firefox to Explorer solved most of the problem. This new laptop has twice forced me to go to "More Reply Options" to be abe to post but I blame that on Windows 8, not the interface with the GMIC. Using an alternate browser might be worth a try for you. Peter

Strange but true! Coincidences are, I think, proof that the 'greater power', however you choose to define that, has a sense of humour, if occasionally black humour.

I can't claim Mike's 40 years, as I got out of medals a while back, but have always thought the enamel jobs were a European thing. Early Victorian medals were almost always, I think, worn in full size - ribbons stitched to the tunic too - so enamel bars seem unlikely to me but I learn new things every week on this site, so who knows!

Congratulations, Rick! looking forward to more of your expert and interesting posts. Peter

Chris Still not having any luck finding this medal on the admittedly slim selection of sites on Egyptian medals. The pre-1953 period seems to be a largely closed book as far as on-line info. is concerned. However, a number of later medals and decorations which feature the word 'Merit" in their titles have single colour ribbons - perhaps coincidence, perhaps a pattern - and I suppose that the ribbon on this example could be very broadly related to the colour 'violet', whatever that may have looked like originally! Thanks for sleuthing out that information! Peter

Jeff I have my doubts. The arms on the reverse of the Khedive's Sudan Medal include 3 stars ['etoile' in heraldry speak] OVER crescent moons, while these arms seem to have only the stars. Ten minutes searching among 10+ sites on Egyptian medals and decorations didn't turn up anything like this, nor anything with a solid red/wine ribbon. The Egyptian Medal of Merit, founded in 1953 has a red ribbon with multiple black stripes. Other opinions, Gentlemen? Peter

I'm not sure it's a beret badge, though I can't quarrel with 'modern'. Beret badges typically have sliders, as the more traditional loop and pin are uncomfortable for the wearer if they push into the forehead. The bendable tangs on the back of this example suggest to me that it is intended for wear on something rigid - a peaked cap. My tuppence worth! :)

I agree with Nick. A maxim in the museum business, applied to artifacts, is "NEVER [never never] do ANYTHING to an artifact which cannot be undone again without any further damage to the object." I believe that would rule out both paint stripping and re-plating, and while a private collection is not necessarily a museum, I believe the maxim is a good one in this case as well. After all, the state it is now in is part of the history of the object, however arrived at, and in no way disfigures the object aesthetically. My tuppence worth! Peter

Michael beat me to it!

I continue to marvel at the science we can now bring to bear on these sorts of sites and remains - analysing lead isotopes to determine where the owner grew up, or identifying the disease which led to the death! I can see why forensic pathology and forensic anthropology programmes are oversubscribed at many universties and colleges. Fascinating stuff.

Lawrence Good luck or good planning? Peter

Would it be the case that mess dress was optional and dependant on the pocketbook of the individual concerned? I know that this was the case for the US Army for some decades and I believe is still the case for Canada's Reserve Forces: invitations would specify 'full dress OR mess dress', as the mess dress is private purchase and not used very frequently in most cases. Or am I dating myself? Peter

Dug To echo Brian, "Welcome to the GMIC". I don't collect medals any more - kids in college, mortgages and so on forbid - but I still have a strong interest in the Indian Army, though any knowledge I have is largely pre-1947. Ed Haynes is one of the few collectors I know who collects to the post-Independence Indian forces and sadly he is no longer a member here. However, a number of has share that interest, so please do let us know more about your medal. I recognize the ribbon as being post '47 Indian, but don't know which one. Peter Monahan

"It is certainly a name, Chris. Not sure how 'typical' but probably not rare." What I intended to say was "Its certainly a Nepalese name". Early morning typing!

Ilja Thank you for posting all the pictures. Some attractive medals there. I think it's interesting that the Efficiency Medal still has the same ribbon as the British one, Or at least appears to - I can't tell whether the stripes are the same widths as on the British/Imperial awards.

It is certainly a name, Chris. Not sure how 'typical' but probably not rare. I take it this is a shot of LE troops in Mali. Peter

Hard to say whether 'unpopular' would translate into most of them being chucked in the closet or into the garbage. Obviously, the former would be the preferred state of affairs for a collector!

BTW, IVB, some of your links don't appear to be working, though it may be my computer, which appears to have taken a dislike to this website in particular! I couldn't get through on links 4, 9 or 10. :(

A very interesting thread. Thank you, gentlemen, for your contributions. Obviously, the notion of the head of state being not only the font of all honours AND the creator of same, harks to the European monarchies of the last several centuries. Victoria's founding of the Royal Victorian Order - alluded to in another thread on this site - is an example. So, it is difficult to say whether President Kufuor is copying that precedent or simply engaging in a self aggrandizement. A common complaint about African governments is their supposed inability to fully implement Western style democracy. However, it may be that culturally some Ghanaians equate the Presidency with traditional Assante kingship rather than with the more Western notion that a President or Prime Minister is really only 'first among equals' and not in fact a regal figure. If that is the case, then the argument can be made that the President was acting in the spirit of traditional leadership and not simply in ignorance of or in despite of the democratic institutions of the country.

Paul Can't gainsay your information about 'permission to wear'. However, there are a large number of examples, in photos and among collections, of 'walking out' uniforms with a myriad of non-regulation additions, including unofficial unit patches, divisional and brigade signs and so on. I find it unlikely, therefore, that if the ribbons were available, there weren't at least a few blokes who put them up anyway, and got away with it even if only long enough to have a photo taken! "I earned the b***er and I'm b****y well wearing it, and s** Standing Orders and the RSM too!" That last bit sotto voce, of course. ;)

One of twelve! A real heirloom, and a very classy one too. Any family history on the man? I see that he was a member of the Victorian Order, which Wikipedia describes as follows: "recognising distinguished personal service to the order's Sovereign, the reigning monarch of the Commonwealth realms, any members of their family, or any of their viceroys. . Established in 1896, the order's chapel is the Savoy Chapel, its official day is 20 June, and its motto is Victoria, alluding to the society's founder, Queen Victoria."

Tony Yes, a lucky break for collectors, but surprising. Decades ago, when I had more money and more hair, I was able to buy several groups, including 6 medals of an 7 medal group, from an Indian gent who visited a militaria show in Toronto. He had gone round the villages and bought silver medals for their bullion value and had literally a suitcase full, all without ribbons, and in the case of my group, minus the 1914-15 Star, which he'd chucked back to the family or in the dust bin. The haul included WWI silver medals and many IGS Medals, some multi-bar. While I was happy, I was also very surprised both that he'd been able to get so many and apparently very easily and that he'd had the business acumen to bring them to a collectors' show in North America. On the flip side, I had an American correspondent who'd bought silver medals for bullion prices in the Peshawar bazaar in the 1970s but when he went back in the '80s at least one of the merchants had copies of British auction houses 'prices realized' lists under his sales mat. I suspect that even in the remotest villages, the nature of military medals and presumably the stories which the wearers brought home with them would have made them important family heirlooms for at least a generation or two and that only much later would economic necessity or lack of appreciation result in their going on the block so to speak. Peter

The other possibility would be that he had seen service in the British Army between the wars, in India for example, or in someone else's army, as there were any number of small wars going on all over the world in the 1920s and '30s, especially in various colonies of the European powers. Even a bad photo would be a help. Peter

Tony You may have this info. already, but there is a "Great War in East Africa Association" with some interesting looking members, who may be able and willing to share info. with you. http://gweaa.com