Schießplatzmeister

Hello all: I know some of the history of this group prior to the year 2000 and personally inspected it many years ago. In the 1970's it was a featured sale item of Ernst Blass. The RAO III. with Crown is a horrid quality bronze-gilt "spangenstuck" if I remember correctly. All of the ribbons appear to be old however. Although impressive looking, somewhat of a mystery to all who have ever owned it. Best regards

Hello everyone: This type of cross is 100% correct. These cast iron crosses (your pieces should be magnetic) with "Roman" sword crossguards were issued for the 1870-71 conflict and often appear on groups of this era. These pieces with "Roman" crossguards were defiantely not jeweler's variations. The pieces with the more ornate sword crossguards are of a later manufacture. If I recall correctly it has been speculated that none of the later types were actually awarded (it seems that they were certainly not awarded during the 1914-1918 era). Eric Ludvigsen knew what he was talking about (always). It seems also that many of these Oldenburg pieces (which are rather scarce) seem to have been discovered by Canadian units towards the end of WWII. There were a few in a collection in the UK a few years back. Due to these pieces being cast iron, you will probably not be able to find a craftsman (or craftswoman) to repair the sword grips properly. Many pieces on groups have the sword grips broken off. I would leave the piece "as is" it it were mine. Congratulations regarding the addition of this nice piece to your collection! ps: Oh yes, Wildcard, I remember the Mertens medal well!

Congratulations David! A wonderful website and a very interesting topic. Good luck with the publication of a book on this subject. I believe that there will be a healthy interest in such a publication. Best regards

Hello Dave: I would interpret it as being a bit strange. A pre-Hindenburg Cross group/field ribbon bar to a Bavarian recipient would usually (but not always) have the MMJO/TKM ribbon first, then the MVO/MVK ribbon, and then the EKII ribbon, etc., etc. That being said, there are three possibilities in my opinion: 1) Bavarian Officer who was a MMJO Knight recipient and MVO IV w/Swords recipient. 2) Bavarian NCO who recived the TKM and who then received a field promotion to Officer and then recived the MVO IV w/Swords (more likely statistically). 3) Bavarian NCO who received the TKM and the MVO,MVK II w/Swords (most likely statistically). I believe that someone who has the Sachsen-Meiningen roll book could sort this one out without too much difficulty. There could not have been too many Bavarians with the Sachsen-Meiningen War Merit Cross or War Merit Medal. On another note: Dave, I am glad that you are back. I really miss your Military Max Joseph Order website. Is there any chance of it ever returning? Best regards

Hello Chris: Yes, cleaning this piece is not advisable as the plating is extremely thin. If you clean it, any trace of the gilding will undoubtedly disappear. Best regards

Although not a "champion" by any stretch of the imagination (just ask my wife), from what evidence I have seen, there were probably very few post-1918 TKM awards. I imagine that several factors influenced this. It is probable that there were a multitude of applications right after 1918 for awards which were not made during the War. In addition to an influx of applications received "all at once", the military and government apparatus for processing such award applications was undoubtedly decimated and in a chaotic state. Also, the funds for such awards were undoubtedly no longer as easily available. It is my opinion that only in "exceptional" cases were retroactive awards made. The award document to Schwartz is the ONLY post-1918 award document that I have every seen (and I have been paying attention to these documents for awhile now). So, my vote is that the "bar" was actually raised. Best regards

Hello: No, actually, I was referring to the provisional award document to Georg Schwartz dated October 24, 1919 which appears later in the book on page 149. His citation document is also shown which was dated November 20, 1925. He was awarded the silver TKM on October 24, 1919 for actions on April 21, 1918 and on June 9, 1918. This is proof that TKM awards actually did continue after the cessation of hostilities. Best regards

Ple..........................se! Ple.............................se! Pretty Ple..............se! Does the EKI have a "square-shaped" punch mark on the reverse center?

Hello Chris: A great group! Congratulations! I believe that the silver-gilt medal was the only medal received by the soldier. There were often severe delays in processing recommendations for awards due to a variety of factors (hospital recovery, POW, etc.) as mentioned by Paul. The action may have happened in 1915, but the award itself was probably presented in 1916 (or 1917 or 1918). If the actual award document existed, it would show when the actual award was processed for presentation. As you know, these official silver-gilt medals are much scarcer than the gold medals. It is possible that awards were made after 1918 (citation documents from the 1920's exist) just like post-war MMJO awards. Most citation documents were prepared in 1918 if I recall correctly. The 1920's citations may be official replacements however and may not indicate a late award. I believe that I may have seen an actual 1919 award document, but I will have to research this further (I believe that a photo may exist in O'Connor's book, Volume 1). It is also possible (as you mentioned) that soldiers were given the option to "trade-in" their gold medals for silver-gilt medals to help the war effort and show their patriotism. I have not seen literature regarding this, but I do know of certain non-wartime awards for which a recipient could trade in their gold medal for a newer-issue (non-gold). Best regards

Hello Chris: I have two (2) theories: 1) Double exposure of film (most likely explanation). 2) Shot made through glass which had a reflection on it??? Best regards

Hello Chris: Yes, I think that you are correct! After looking through ranklists, etc., the name "Dallwitz" does appear several times. The name "Dauwitz" does not. I have not found this General yet. I will keep looking a bit more. Best regards

Hello Christer: It looks like General von "Dauwitz" is possibly written and maybe not "Dallwitz". Best regards

Hello again: Again these are also not "researchable" as to specific recipients. Best regards

Hello: If you mean by "research" that the name of the specific individuals who were awarded these awards can be found without other supporting documentation, the answer is "no". Based upon the awards present however, other types of information can be guessed (ie.:type of unit, possible rank of recipient, etc.). Best regards

Hello: This is definately a Friedrichsorden with swords. It is a 2nd Class in my opinion. The third award is probably a Württemberg Landwehr DA 2. Klasse. So, your fellow is a Württemberg reserve Officer. A very nice photo! Congratulations.

Hello Timo: There are two (2) available at eMedals for US$240 and US$275 currently. You may be able to find one for US$75-US$150 if you are patient and willing to wait awhile. Ebay.de would be a good place to buy one. Best regards

Hello Jason: I hope that everything has dried out a bit now in your area and that all is well. The first award is a Prussian "Militär-Ehrenzeichen 1. Klasse" (Military Honor Award 1st Class). I believe that it is the proper award on this group most likely. A very rare group to a colonial soldier or marine! Thank you for sharing this item with us. Best regards

Hello: Klietmann and Scharfenberg do not list any award totals in their expert works regarding the awards of Anhalt. It therefore seems that the answer is unknown. There could not have been many awards in any case. Best regards

Hello again Mike: I must add that the swords on this piece appear to be cast and not die-struck (without direct inspection however there is no way to be 100% certain). These swords are definately NOT integral to the cross body. On original pieces, they were added to the cross body by the utilization of threaded screw posts. On this piece, they may be screwed in place, but this is unlikely. On the identical piece that I owned they were definately soldered into place. Best regards

Hello: Common sense has been utilized. As stated by Markus, this piece does not conform to known originals by Wagner or Godet. It therefore falls into the "not an awarded piece" category. This therefore leaves open the possibility that it could have been made very recently or relatively long ago. It also leaves open the possibility that it was sold as a replacement piece to a recipient, or that it is a modern forgery meant to deceive collectors. Without more evidence, one cannot be certain. I have owned an identical piece to this one. The piece that I owned came from a old collection which contained original period pieces. The quality of workmanship of the piece was sub-standard compared to a Wagner piece. The asterisk marking on the ring leads me to believe that the piece is a 1920's or later copy and that it is possibly of Austrian manufacture. So, I belive the piece to not be modern, and that it was possibly made to be sold as a replacement (for an actual recipient). However, there is no way to be 100% certain of this. Copies made for the collector's market have been around for a long time. Best regards

Hello Thierry: I believe that the combination could be possible. However, this looks to be a modern-made cast forgery from what I can see in the photographs. Best regards

Hello: The ribbon in the middle belongs to a Bavarian 1866 Campaign Cross. This is a rather common group. A perfect and complete example of this group with these awards can probably be found in Germany for the same amount that you will have to pay for the individual awards during the restoration process. Best regards

Hello: An interesting topic indeed. If is often forgotten also that Hussar's uniforms had no buttonholes (only loops for the toggle buttons). Therefore on finds EKII crosses on bow-type ribbons (for Hussars) although there were no female recipients of this award 1914-1918. I have seen photos which confirm this. Best regards

Dear Palencia: You have made an excellent point. It does seem that collectors prefer the lure of enamel. I believe that a possible explanation is that newer collectors are drawn to what looks nicer and that therefore a higher value is placed upon such items by dealers as they are more sought after. Rarity is sadly sometimes not a factor which determines the value of an object. Look at the 1914 EKII collector's market. Now such items are collected by maker with pieces by certain makers bringing premium prices. With MILLIONS of awards, I don't understand it. I remember being able to buy all of the 1914 EKII's that I wanted for US$15 each. This of course was awhile ago, but to me, (in my mind anyway) they are ALL still worth this amount! I will always be able to find one whenever I need one. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello: Naxos is correct. It is without a doubt a SEHO Knight 1st or 2nd Class with Swords. Best regards, "SPM"