Hungary Hungarian People's Republic Awards

[Richard S]

Order of the War Merit of Hungarian Freedom, Bronze Grade, Obverse

[Richard S]

Order of the War Merit of Hungarian Freedom, Bronze Grade, Reverse

[hunyadi]

Richard - thank you for these images - after reviewing them I think that the one I now have is probably one of the first "good" produced fakes of the HUPR - and a Type IV to boot! Just so that everyone is in the clear - I have retraced my offer of sale to the indivudal that asked to buy it. I dont want to be the first one out there to start spreaing questionable items about!

[Gordon Craig]

Richard, Charles,

Interesting comparison of the medals. I noticed on the one that Charles has, compared to the ones in the museum, that the measurements appeared to be different but not having the two to compare at the time I couldn't be sure. IE that if you were to lay the medal on a flat surface with the head up and measure from the flat surface to the head side of the medal there is a noticable difference in height. Perhaps it would be useful for us all if both Charles and Richard would post the dimensions and weights of their individual silver medals. Also, that the medals at the museum, like the ones Ricahrd posted, are very smooth on their reverse side while the one Charles bought is not.

Regards,

Gordon

[Richard S]

Hello Gordon,

hello Charles,

here are the measurements and the weight of my Silber Grade of the Order of the War Merit of Hungarian Freedom:

Diameter: 45,5 mm, Height: 9,0 mm, Weight with ribbon: 26 g

For Info: I buyed this order and the other war decorations in a big presentation box. This box was, according to the seller, a specimen-box for the armed forces.

Best regards

Richard

[Ulsterman]

Hi gents:

Why the different ribbons?

Also, you can tell a LOT by the weights and the measurements.

[Richard S]

War Order of the Red Star, 1st class, Obverse

[Richard S]

War Order of the Red Star, 1st class, Reverse

[Richard S]

War Order of the Red Star, 2nd class, Obverse

[Richard S]

War Order of the Red Star, 3rd class, Obverse

[Richard S]

Bravery Medal, Golden Grade, Obverse

[Richard S]

Bravery Medal, Golden Grade, Reverse

[Richard S]

Bravery Medal, Silver Grade, Obverse

[Richard S]

Bravery Medal, Bronze Grade, Obverse

[Richard S]

War Memory Medal, Obverse

[Richard S]

War Memory Medal, Reverse

[Gordon Craig]

Richard,

Thanks for posting these other awards. Interesting that your awards came in a box the vendor said was aspecimin box for the army. What Charles and I saw at the museum was a red box of medals with the war medals plus some others that were regular issue types. It would be great if you would post a picture of interior of the box with all of the medals in place. I would very much like to add a box of medals like we saw at the museum to my collection. It would be the centrepiece of my Hungarian collection.

Regards,

Gordon

[hunyadi]

Hello Gordon,

hello Charles,

here are the measurements and the weight of my Silber Grade of the Order of the War Merit of Hungarian Freedom:

Diameter: 45,5 mm, Height: 9,0 mm, Weight with ribbon: 26 g

For Info: I buyed this order and the other war decorations in a big presentation box. This box was, according to the seller, a specimen-box for the armed forces.

Best regards

Richard

Here is my observations -

Diameter: 45.5 mm (match)

Height: 6mm (but I think that Richard may have mis-done this? The Type II and III are also 6 - 6.5 mm in height only)

Weight: I dont have the most accurate scale - but 17 g with the ribbon is what I come up with.

Its not lead nor some cheap alloy that you see with the cast fakes of the 3rd Reich. - I have tried to bend it with hand pressure with no luck - its a fake right? why worry about breaking it...

As for the Box - you probably have the only other one - (at least known at this point) Did it come with a Hero of the Hungarian Peoples Republic - if so - dont hold back now!

[Gordon Craig]

Charles,

Thanks for adding your specs for your medal. Considerable weigth difference. Be nice to be able to weigh them on the same set of scales. Also, the hieght difference is noticeable but I think I only noticed that the day you bought the medal because we had only left the museum a few minutes prior to the sale. Because I noticed a hieght difference I thnk that Richard was probably correct in his measurement. Be nice to put them side-by-side. Perhaps the enxt time we visit the numismatics section of the military museum.

Regards,

Godon

[Gordon Craig]

Richard,

Would you please post a picture of the Silver medal you have which is the same as the one Charles posted. Soecifically how the ribbon is attached to the medal back. They appear to be different and I would like to be able to compare them.

Regards,

Gordon

[Gordon Craig]

Gents,

I've had some time to spend analysing the silver Order of War Merit of Hungarian Freedom that Charles posted and I have come to the conclusion that the medal is a fake. The picture comparison between the one Charles posted and the ones Richard posted indicate this but not conclusively. I don't have an authentic medal like Richard does for comparison purposes with the one Charles posted but I do own the medal that seems to have been the basis for the design which is the Magyar Szabadsag Erdemrend. When you compare these two medals, and Richards posted medals, it is easy to see where the one Charles posted does not measure up. I should tell you at this point that I now own the medal Charles posted. Charles did not sell it to me or anyone else. I'll let him tell you what he did with it.

There are three pictures of what from now on I will refer to as the fake shown below. Here the major things I find wrong with it, aside from the differences in measurements noted in an earlier post;

1-the detail of the front of the medal is not as sharp as the original posted by Richard or my comparison piece next to it;

2-Richard's medal seems to have the same type of ring on the medal as the bronze one in my picture. Look at the large clumsy looking ring on the fake;

3-the ray at the bottom of the fake is missing the cetral ray projecting from the centre portion. In inspecting it I would say there never was a projecting piece from this ray;

4-the green painted wreath on the fake goes all the way around without any breaks in it. On my bronze comparison medal and the one Richard posted the green enamel is not present on the crossed ribbon pieces on the four sides of the medal.

All that being said, I am glad that I now own this piece as it gives me, and I hope the viewers, a reliable way to identify a fake from a real one should you ever come across one of these medals.

[Gordon Craig]

Picture number 2

[Gordon Craig]

Picture number 3

[hunyadi]

well - if anyone is wondering, after I became suspect of its originality and got some good shots of the details in digital form, I took it back to the dealer and got my money back. (I cant afford the database of fakes at this point, not for what I paid for it at least) I am glad that Gordon was able to get it and now there is a solid reference point for it. In defense of the dealer I got it from - I dont think that he truly had any idea eitehr as to its misrepresentation, its still an early field and a young tangent of the HUPR awards. (Sadly)

[Ulsterman]

Now for something completely different:

The "Educators' medal: 1975-1991.This medal was established for teachers in 1974 and originally cast.

This type, by the ribbon is from 1977-1987. After 1987 the medal was gilded and die struck. before 1977 (1975-77), the ribbon was different. Awarded to teachers upon retirement with a nice cash bonus, discontinued in 1991 (sadly). Not a great scan, but a nice little medal. I wish i had a box and a document to go with it. Sorry about the poor quality scan.

Edited March 10, 2007 by Ulsterman