Soviet Flea market booty may land visitor in prison

[order_of_victory]

A woman from Chile is on trial in the central Russian city of Voronezh accused of trying to smuggle aretefacts out of the country. Roxana Contreras told customs officials at the city's airport that she bought the old coins and medals at a street market as presents for friends. If convicted, she could face up to six years in prison.

Roxana Contreras, a 29-year-old graduate student in physics from the U.S. University of Missouri, only planned to spend her holiday in Voronezh, but had to stay longer. She's now being tried for smuggling.

?She went to a bookseller and bought three antique bank notes. Next day, the salesman convinced her to buy several medals,? said her lawyer Aleksey Andreeshchev.

Roxana Contreras

Two months ago she was detained at Voronezh Airport as she was about to fly out of the country. Customs discovered the Soviet military decorations and old notes in her luggage. She hadn't declared them. All the items are covered by Russia's strict laws on exporting and importing cultural valuables. The rules forbid objects from being taken out of the country without special permission.

?The amount of money involved in her misdemeanour is so small that legally speaking, it should be classified as a petty offence,? Aleksey Andreeshchev noted.

Contreras denies the accusation. She says she didn't know the items she bought as gifts for about $US 60, had any cultural value.

?I don?t have any expectations, but I would really like to make my case?, Roxana Contreras explained.

Roxana Contreras faces up to six years in prison and a fine of 1 MLN roubles (about $US 40,000) if found guilty.

From Russia Today

[Ed_Haynes]

Well . . . it is the law. Like it or not.

What does this mean for the remainder of us? Well, if Interpol can be called in to try to stop an auction of Soviet awards, then . . .

[JimZ]

That's why some of us were rather upset when the Russian watchdog started to raise its head and cast its glance at soviet ODMs!

Poor naive Roxana - she cannot plead ignorace of the law as a 'crime' is a crime notwithstanding! Even poorer Roxana, as the Russians will want to make an example of one or two people until the message starts to sink in!

And that is exactly why I turned my back on a mirror reverse ORB1 with booklet and photo last time I was there in December 06!!! If $60 on some (probably commemorative medals) can land a tourist in such a mess....... think of the higer end stuff!

Jim

Edited August 29, 2007 by JimZ

[Alex K]

It does seem harsh, particularly if it was done in total innocence, but the law is the law. I remenber many years ago, in the early 70's when I was in Poland, I dearly wanted to buy military items but was told that I can, but cannot export them out of the country. It seems to be a common rule in former eastern Block countries, and a law which may still be practised post Communsim.

Pity for those that collect soviet awards

regards

Alex

[order_of_victory]

It rather worrying look back how many paper items I had in my suit case when I came back from Moscow

The reason why i posted this is because its the first time I have heard of some one being prosecuted for this crime

Order of Victory

[JimZ]

The rules forbid objects from being taken out of the country without special permission.

Oh... erm... we might be collectors interested in treasuring studying and researching the orders of your country. Erm...Gospodin Putin, where do we go about applying for a special permission?

- Ironic no?!

Jim

[Bob]

Pity for those that collect soviet awards

Wasn't it always illegal?

What is there to pity:

- that it's illegal?

- OR that the consequences (risk of getting caught and possible penalty) are now higher?

[Guest Rick Research]

Let me get this straight

old PAPER MONEY

old worthless cannot be used in commerce invalid, outdated, superceded DEAD REGIMES'

produced in the hundreds of millions of bills paper money

is now

"Cultural Patrimony?"

Please alert the Russian Embassy, Interpol, the United Nations, AND the F.S.B.-- I have in my possession three ratty, tattered, falling apart pre-1914 paper Rubles given to me as a child by old Russian emigres.

I also have Third Reich Reichsmarks and German 1923 inflation currency (BILLIONS, "face value") brought back as War Booty by my great uncle (a VERY poor souvenir hound, indeed) and bank notes from the former Austro-Hungarian Empire that I bought 30 years ago at a rural Connecticut junk shop for 50 cents apiece.

The full weight and majesty of International Law at the beck and call of what seems to be a most frenziedly ABSURD (but not in any amusing Gogol-ian sense) Putinia is most cordially invited to fall upon me with all its Les Miserables dementia.

YEESH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hauptmann]

This from a people/regime that blew up many of their ancient (and newer) churches, melted down the bells and destroyed God only knows what in their early communist campaigns against religion and the nobility/aristrocracy.

And now they want to worry about things that they produced in their millions upon millions! I can totally understand awards or items that belonged to HSU's, famous individuals... things like that. But much of what they deem cultural... they're NUTS! It would be like our government suddenly worrying about where each and every Kennedy Half Dollar ever minted was and saying it's illegal to have them outside of the country! It would be insane!

Granted... it's their country and they can do what they want. But they're not making any friends in doing it. You'd think they'd feel great about the idea that there are so many people around the world who are fascinated with and want to collect and study their history, especially that of the GPW. For so long they could care less, other than items from their highest leaders, etc. And here we've been trying to honor the memory of their long forgotten heroes... whether it was a lowly private who was awarded a Glory 3rd or a Marshal with a chest full of ODM's... it didn't matter to us. We spend our money (tons of it) to obtain and then research and learn all we can about people that their history has basically all but forgotten. And instead of a hearty thanks we get kicked in the rear!

Lord knows... we don't do it for their government. We do it for the memory of those who fought and often gave their all. We do it for our love of history.

Due to all their crimes against history they don't even know what much of their true history is anymore.

Sorry... just had to vent a bit.

Dan

[Guest Rick Research]

Oh dear.

Oh dear.

Bozhe moi!

It appears I am also in felonious possession of ... HARD CURRENCY!

A hard currency. An hard currency. This is an EX Currency. This currency is NO MORE...

although one begins to wonder ( one does, one does) whether it really IS ..."just restin'."

Yes, my non-international currency violator comrades, 1 of the 817,854,236 1967 commemorative 1 Rubl' coins is in my filthy violatin' paws!

It's not the AMOUNT that matters-- it is the inflexible, implacable sword's edge of The Law, cutting all and sparing none.

BLIND Justice.

DEAF Justice.

DUMB Justice.

No matter that it was given to me by a Ukrainian emigre! It says RIGHT ON THE FRONT "Sovietsky Vlast" and Sovietsky Vlast must remain forever and immutably untarnished and virginal in the Russian We Are Not Communists We Are Not We Are NOT Federation!!!!

Throw wide the gates of Revived Yakutia-- I come!

An Open Letter To President Putin:

Dear Vlad:

can I call you Vlad, after you just popped over to my cousin George's dad's place for a t?te-?-t?te as your former 2nd Best Buds the Frainch say? And I only mention that the Chairman of the Democratic National Committee is my x7 cousin, not in expectation of any favoritism, but because it makes my sordid crime all the worse and should be punished MORE severely, what with being an obscure member of the Amerikansky Nomenklatura and all.

I AM IN ILLEGAL POSSESSION OF HOLY (can I say that again now, Vlad? Just wondering now that you've got all those weirdly inappropriate Romanov crowns back on all their previously-reviled double headed eagles and last I knew you were President and not Tsar) MOTHER RUSSIA'S SACRED AND IRREPLACABLE CULTURAL PATRIMONY. Viz--

How it got to me, I don't know. Honest to God, Marx and all the Holy Engels I honestly do not know, Vlad.

Please send an OMON van to get me. I'll come quietly, resigned to my well-deserved fate.

The Law Is The Law. Befehl Sind Befehl.

Also, at this time, I wish to publicly confess ALL my criminous currency-and-related-numismatic-sort-of crimes against Mother Gaia:

To the 4th Republic of France of sainted memory: please forgive my wicked G.I. great-uncle for illegally transferring your aluminum 5 Franc coin into my depraved hands. I am sure you could have really used it back around Indo-Chine and l'Algerie and so he/we/I are personally responsible. I apologize, heartfelt and contrite.

To the Maximum Leader, His Excellency Se?or Chavez: I do not know, indeed, whether your wondrous worker's paradise in the making still USES coinage from 1967, when some member of my shameless exploiter family apparently made a once-in-that-century vacation trip across the Caribbean, but I would like to PERSONALLY return this 2 Bolivares to you the next time you are in New York telling demonic fart jokes to the U.N. General Assembly. If, alas, this does not prove possible due to my re-educational detention in the Soviet er Russian Far East, I would like to tag along with Danny Glover and do so when YOU are heroically celebrating YOUR 80th birthday like your idol AND mine, Maximum Leader & Father To His People The Universally Loved And Admired Kim Il Jung sorry, overcome by my tears of repentance, Fidel Castro.

To the Provincial Government of Westphalia: I know this 1923 10,000 Marks may not be much in 2007, but allow me personally to apologize for the Treaty of Versailles by so doing. It's in the mail. I hope the federally pensionable pirates infesting both OUR Postal "Service" and YOURS do not steal it. My luck, their brothers-in-law probably run the prisons worldwide and GOD knows what I'll have to do for a cigarette!

To the Boston Metropolitan Transit Authority. yes, yes, I am the one. No, NOT the Boston Strangler. Yeesh!!! Get a grip already! No, I am the reason why MTA Charlie Can Never Return, no he can never return. I have TWO of your subway tokens. Oh the pathos. Poor poor Charlie trapped forever on the Green Line, immortalized only in folk song! Maybe Mayor Menino can give these to his friends building that mega-mosque he gave them free on city land for some sort of decoration or something. They are in the mail-- or maybe the OMON convoy turnkeys will let me deliver them while we're waiting to fly out of Logan. I'll let you know.

And finally, to the Worcester Street Railway Company. I have a bunch of your trolley tokens. Now, my family's slander always was that they'd PAID for these in advance when you so sneakily went out of business in ? 1951? But I know it must be because they didn't ride enough cars quick enough. I wasn't born at the time, and most of them are dead, but please accept my gratuitously meaningless empty apologies anyway. OK?

There. I feel much better now, having confesssed all.

No! WAIT!

I still have some Imperial Japanese Military Government occupied Philippines Peso notes someplace, too-- that MUST be a "twofer!" Aw, crap! Better send in the International Monetary Fund and vacuum the place.

Got some 1866/67 provincial Canadian pennies around here someplace too.

Is there no END to my currency infraction sins?

Can all of you EVER truly forgive me??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[Guest Rick Research]

Arrrrrrrr. Shiver me timbers, Jim! I carn't fool EE.

I did try to hold bark thart Imperial German 1918 War Loan Bond. Arrrr, tis the Black Spot for me now. No place on earth carn hide me. But ee won't turrrn me in, will'ee, Jim? Old shipmates as we arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr?

That? Why, thart's just the clankin' o' loose screws in me woorden leg, thart be, Jim. Thanks fer arskin' tho' and ne'er ee mind about porrrrr old Rrrrrrrrrrricky, arrrr!

[hunyadi]

When I was there in 1999, I had a few of the illegal buggers in my carry-on. Though the thing they were interested in was the leaded glass egg with the FR crest etched in it as a gift for mum. I had of course bought the thing at the git shop in the Moscow airport. But as it was leaded and did not 'reveal' what was inside and it was the shape of a grendae...well I looked the part of the terrorist with our church group. Never mind the manual for the MiG-17 marked Top Secret...

Poland - now there was a place that I was lucky to get out of. Thankfuly I drove there, went to the market and bought unbeleivable ammounts of militaria - only holding back on the MG-42 as I was a bit worried that the border guards might search the car to find a hardly deactivated weapon... And now - as I have started on the Soviet ODM - I await my INTERPOL report....

[Belaruski]

I think this thread may have the highest sarcasm percentage of any forum.

The best way is to get things fed ex'd and air mailed out. Take it through customs and you take your chances..

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo Gents,

with regards Patramonia it seems Romania is now acting sillybuggers, recently I went to send a couple of inconsequental pre communist era medals to the USA, only to have the Romanian Customs agent inform me of the following:

1. Anything over 50 years old is now regarded as Patramonia!!

2.I must go to the local Museum of Antiquities Burea and get a certificate stating its not Patromonia.

3. No, he cant show me the relavent regulations as the new rules have not been printed yet.

4. To show he was wise to my game of trying to sell the "Riches of Romania" to outsiders he informed me that the only military medals worth anything were the ones that took a bullet and saved the wearers life!!

5. And he also stated he did not believe my story that in the E.U. you could post an object anywhere without it being inspected by the Customs Agents of the country first!! Good God man do you expect me to believe people can post anything they want without CONTROL

6. As a personal favour he allowed me to send the items but that in Future, all items would have to have the relavent Certificates.

7. By the way the local Museum of Antiquities dont know of any such new regulations!!!

8. Local U.P.S., T.N.T. and D.H.L. refuse to accept packets with objects inside from Private citizens, only Registered Businesses can post packets, we the common unwashed, may send a letter with paper only!!!

Kevin in Deva.

[Guest Rick Research]

Are there statues of Kafka in Rumania? Hmmmmm. Maybe I will have to move up a notch from SATIRE and actually get into some real sarcasm.

You must forgive us Irish for tweaking the noses of ridiculous officialdom, Belaruski. It is genetic with us Celts.

I'm sure Kev and I could go off on pages of satire (it's late summer and the collectin' is slowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww) far beyond the Monty Python "Dead Parrot Sketch."

As one of Charles Dickens' characters once said--

"The Law is a nass."

My retired mother worked in an export firm. Among the items it was absolutely FORBIDDEN to export was

nuclear waste.

OK.

Then why did the United States Government handbook of export codes contain...

you guessed it...

a numerical code for

nuclear waste?

[hunyadi]

Because there could never be a national conspiracy - no government on earth could be so organised.

- you cant EXPORT Nuclear Waste - but you can DISPOSE of it...

[Carol I]

Sorry to hear about your troubles, Kevin. Most of the regulations are in force in the attempt to stop the smuggling of rare items and are in principle similar to regulations in force in other countries, as Greece for example.

This being said, some of the regulations regarding the control of postal shipments date from the time of the Cold War and are still in force. I think I have read somewhere that a law forbidding the shipment of books by mail is apparently still in force. The law originated from the time when the authorities tried "to prevent the imperialist agents from gathering information on the achievements of the socialist regime". The law applied to all kinds of books "as technical manuals and textbooks could be easily disguised as innocent novels". I wonder how the publishing houses that are nowadays shipping books abroad are coping with this old law.

with regards Patramonia it seems Romania is now acting sillybuggers, recently I went to send a couple of inconsequental pre communist era medals to the USA, only to have the Romanian Customs agent inform me of the following:

1. Anything over 50 years old is now regarded as Patramonia!!

2. I must go to the local Museum of Antiquities Burea and get a certificate stating its not Patromonia.

I think the regulations say that old objects could be part of the Patrimony and that you would need an expert opinion as to whether it is or it is not. Unfortunately there are many grey areas regarding how to decide whether an object is part of the National Patrimony or not. These are probably used as loopholes by smugglers, but they also hamper the activity of collectors. These things are often discussed by honest collectors who find their activity disrupted by bureaucratic details.

3. No, he cant show me the relavent regulations as the new rules have not been printed yet.

The regulations exist Kevin, but as mentioned above they have many grey areas. See for example OMCC 2053/2002 regarding the classification of cultural items or HG 1420/2003 regarding the commercial activities with cultural items (I found these named on a collector forum, but you would probably have to ask a dealer about the most up-to-date rules - most likely against a fee ). In principle the regulations refer to rare items as archaeological artefacts. You may have noticed in the news that there have been several instances when Dacian or Ancient Greek archaeological sites were suspected to have been robbed and the items sent to dealers with numismatic galleries (who may have been involved themselves in the traffic). The problem with these however, is that it is the duty of the individual not of authorities to prove that the items are not part of the Patrimony. This leads to strange situations, as for example that of a collector receiving by mail a couple of old and tattered banknotes and who had to go to many banks until obtaining a certificate proving that those were not circulation money and that no regulations regarding the shipment of money by post or the import of currency have been crossed.

[Carol I]

Coming back to the Russian regulations, apparently diplomats are also affected by them: RF investigators to question head of OSCE mission to Moldova

Through his function, the diplomat in question is involved (among other things) in negotiations regarding the withdrawal of the Russian 14th Army stationed on the territory of the Republic of Moldova. Of course, it could only be a coincidence...