Serbia Serbia - Unknown Takovo

[Gobag]

Hello!

Can somebody tell me, wich class of Takovo is this? Thanks!

[JBFloyd]

An officer's badge, with a silver disc replacing the missing the reverse medallion which had the national coat of arms.

[Gobag]

Thanks! But the officer's badge is gilt. My medal looks like original, and its silver, not found any gold part. And the silver disc looks like original too.

[paul wood]

Serbian Orders were made by a variety of manufacturers, mostly Austrian, Karl Fischmeister being the main maker for Obrenovich Orders. I suspect your piece is not made by one of the regular manufacturers and certainly it would have had the enamelled Serb Arms on the reverse. It does appear to be silver,which is most unusual as the Officer's badge of the Takovo was silver gilt and enamelled, it can't be a Knight's badge as they were just gilt metal. It appears what you have is an interesting variation. Possibly even privately made to make up either for a lost piece or for a piece which did not arrive from Serbia, posibly due to the defenestration of Belgrade

Thats my paras worth,

All the best,

Paul

[922F]

The loop connecting the cross to the crown apparently has at least three marks. The ribbon ring seems to have a couple as well. These probably will reveal the base material as silver, the maker as Rothe or Fischmeister, and a tax release mark suggesting the manufacture date range and country of origin {Austria}. This piece has a central MO IV monogram suggesting a likely 1882-89 date range. This order's insignia seems to be relatively susceptable to losing reverses. As Jeff notes, it is not especially unusual to find missing reverses replaced with a plain or domed disc or sometimes even a coin. The lack of gilding may be a manufacturing error or evidence of heavy wear, disassembly and reconstruction evinced by the slight rotation of the obverse center & wreath. The lack of damage to the suspension crown, cross and wreath but chips to the motto ring & red enamel center may support that possibility. Or maybe the obverse center is simply loose.

[Gobag]

Thanks for your answers! Have another question.

Here's the hallmarks:

Can you tell me, what it's meaning?

[922F]

Thanks for your answers! Have another question.

Here's the hallmarks:

Can you tell me, what it's meaning?

I am traveling now and will not have access to references until late-November /early- December. Robert McNamara wrote a study later published by OMSA on Austrian hallmarks but I do not recall him describing either of these. Perhaps someone else has more ready access to that information. Some marks are "shop marks" identifying either individual craftsmen or the order in which a piece is assembled.

Is the one on the right an "O" and an "L" or "10"? The one on the left may be "C F Rothe" but it may be a Serb import tax stamp.

The marks on the loop between the cross and crown may be clearer and easier to identify.

Edited October 31, 2007 by 922F

[Carol I]

Thanks for your answers! Have another question.

Here's the hallmarks:

Can you tell me, what it's meaning?

Here is an image of Austrian hallmarks posted by Rick Research in another thread. Hopefully it will help identifying the marks on your badge.

? James W. Schaaf, "The Serbian White Eagle Order, Manufacture and Marks (Part IV)," in "The Medal Collector" (Journal of the Orders & Medals Society of America) for July 1979, page 10:

[Kev in Deva]

Hallo

Is this the same item up for sale on ebay??

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kingdom-of-Serbia-Or...1QQcmdZViewItem" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Kingdom-of-Serbia-Or...1QQcmdZViewItem</a>

If it is the seller makes no mention that the back is possibly a replacement!

Kevin in Deva

Edited October 31, 2007 by Kev in Deva

[JimZ]

If it is the seller makes no mention that the back is possibly a replacement!

You'd expect the seller to mention that in the description wouldn't you Kev especially when there is detail about a scratch on the reverse.....

Can anyone post a picture of the original reverse of the order seeing that it has been said that the reverse has a disk replacing the national coat of arms?

Jim

[Gobag]

Is this the same item up for sale on ebay??

Yes, it's same.

I want to sell it. I'm not collecting serbian medals.

And I don't know them. That's why I don't add any other information to item description. There are some pictures, have to see. I'm sure, who wants to buy Takovo cross, will know, it's original or possibly a replacement.

So I think, I did not make mistake.

Regards:

Gobag

[JimZ]

Second and last call to try to establish what the reverse of this order looks like:

Can anyone post a picture of the original reverse of the order seeing that it has been said that the reverse has a disk replacing the national coat of arms?

Jim

[orden_master]

Hi Jim

sorry was a couple of days offline. Heres a pic of the reverse

regards

Milan

Second and last call to try to establish what the reverse of this order looks like:

Can anyone post a picture of the original reverse of the order seeing that it has been said that the reverse has a disk replacing the national coat of arms?

Jim

[orden_master]

Some more pictures are in my Takovo cross section of my website !

regards

Milan

[orden_master]

OOoops !

just get councious that I have not posted and reverse side pictures, SORRY! Have to to that soon !

Milan

[JimZ]

No worries Milan - Sure you'll update your site soon enough. Looking forward.

So I reckon that, hypothetically speaking, seller can safely inform buyers, (based on the collective expertise of some forum members whose collections/interests are relevant), that the order on sale is damaged as the reverse appears to have been altered.

Just for the sake of completion at this late stage.

Jim

[orden_master]

Absolutely correct !!

No worries Milan - Sure you'll update your site soon enough. Looking forward.

So I reckon that, hypothetically speaking, seller can safely inform buyers, (based on the collective expertise of some forum members whose collections/interests are relevant), that the order on sale is damaged as the reverse appears to have been altered.

Just for the sake of completion at this late stage.

Jim

[nickstrenk]

This is my Takovo-a narrow ribbon.I left it in my collection because of the ribbon.Probably somebody will answer,what is the diferrence in ribbons between them?Triange ribbon-narrow ribbon?Time of awarding,period of awarding?Manufactures?

[paja]

Looks like Fleischhacker's order which puts it in the 1891-1903 period. Unfortunately I can't help you with the ribbon.

[Daffy Duck]

It looks like French way of wear. I have seen some other Serbian medals with the similar way of wear in France.

[Daffy Duck]

As I am not so familiar with the Order of Takovo, any information about this specific order (producer, period...?)

Many thanks in advance.

 

[paja]

Based on this photo I'd say Anton Fürst, earlier type.