Soviet Prices on lenin order

[new world]

Igor is selling "Order of Lenin, Type 6, Var 1 (Leningrad Mint), #266371, with a document, 1954 issue."

for $2,300!

What's going on? Is there anything I am missing about this particular award?

This is just common Lenin order, there's nothing rare about it.

William

[Paul R]

This is just common Lenin order, there's nothing rare about it.

William

Tell me about it! Gotta love Capitalism!

[Christian Zulus]

What's going on? Is there anything I am missing about this particular award?

This is just common Lenin order, there's nothing rare about it.

Dear William,

I guess, that 4 factors determine the price for an (ordinary) "Lenin":

- actual market price for pure gold

- exchange rate of the USD vs. EUR

- the "Lenin" IS the highest order of the passed away CCCP, so the demand inside Russia is hughe

- the design of the "Lenin" is of breathtaking beauty, so demand, demand ....

For months, factors 1 & 2 are bitter reality AND the Russian collectors have money AND the "Lenin" is their national heritage.

As an economist, I guess, that the price for one ounce of pure gold will be soon beyond USD 1.000,- and that the USD will never recover again - the future of the USA might be the role of a cheap resource of working power for Europe, China, Japan & India ...

The present market reality is, that dealers ask about USD 2.000,- for an "Lenin" T5 / V1 (without documents!): http://www.collectrussia.com/DISPITEM.HTM?ITEM=18334 (exactly 14 years ago - january 1994 - I paid EUR 470,- for an identical "Lenin" s/n. 180.922 of the early 1950s - that "Lenin" has been the starting point of my modest & humble Soviet collection )

Best regards

Christian

Edited January 9, 2008 by Christian Zulus

[Christian Zulus]

"Lenin" bargains offered by Mr. Rabkin

Gentlemen,

if someone wants to deal with Eugene Rabkin http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=22590 , he offers two "Lenin" T6 (one with orders booklet, the other without) for mere USD 1445,- : http://www.russianglory.com/soviet_orders.htm

Best regards

Christian

Edited January 9, 2008 by Christian Zulus

[order_of_victory]

Gosh, that makes the 700usd I paid for mine a bargin

Order of Victory

[Christian Zulus]

Gosh, that makes the 700usd I paid for mine a bargin

Dear Vic,

that's true .

I had been lucky to get an "Lenin" T6 / V2 s/n. 433268 from the 1970s - in absolute mint-condition (10/10) - in Vienna (in the year 2000!) for mere EUR 400,- .

Best regards

Christian

[Christian Zulus]

2 nice "Lenins" with starting bid of USD 960,- at Dimitry's N.Y.-auction tomorrow morning

Gentlemen,

Dimitry has two "Lenins" - T5 / V1 s/n. 99487 and a T6 with hand engraved serial number - both with a starting bid of USD 960,- (incl. all fees for the US-buyer) at his auction tomorrow morning at the "Waldorf Astoria", Park Avenue, New York City: http://www.russian-medals.net/ .

Let's have a look, how the bidding will go on .

I estimate the T 5 somewhere around USD 1.900,- and the T 6 around USD 1.400,- (incl. all fees) .

Best regards

Christian

[Paul R]

As an economist, I guess, that the price for one ounce of pure gold will be soon beyond USD 1.000,- and that the USD will never recover again - the future of the USA might be the role of a cheap resource of working power for Europe, China, Japan & India ...

Hi Christian,

I can see where some members might take offense to this. There is no need for this type of comment.

[Christian Zulus]

I can see where some members might take offense to this. There is no need for this type of comment.

Dear Paul,

you are right - economic commentaries without context to military history are not needed at GMIC .

I want to excuse myself towards the citizens of the USA at GMIC, that I posted here a "might be" commentary about the future of your great nation, which has won (at least) the "Cold War" against the "Soviet Empire" in military history.

If someone might be interested in the history of US-economics, please have a look into the numerous publications of the renowed US-economist John Kenneth Galbraith http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kenneth_Galbraith . He was an important figure in Roosevelt's US-war-economics during WW II and published some great studies about the subject .

Best regards

Christian

[Wild Card]

Apology accepted, without further comment.

[Guest Darrell]

As far as I'm concerned he's a price gouger and won't get a dime off me ... EVER

He makes Kai Winkler look like a bargain giver ...

Edited January 10, 2008 by Darrell

[new world]

These awards historically were selling slightly above the price of the metal content.

You have to keep in mind that there this type of Lenin (made by Leningrad and Moscow mints) were issued from 1950s to the end of Soviet Union. That's over 30 years and about 270,000 awards!!!

Lots of these Lenins were melted into jewelry or dental crowns, but still - plenty of them survived.

This award is not rare at all, there are always several for sale at any moment.

BTW, currently price of Lenin is approaching $2000 in Russia, but still I think Igor went too high with this one.

William

[Christian Zulus]

These awards historically were selling slightly above the price of the metal content.

Dear William,

that had been really the reality in the 1990s and early 2000s - the price of the Lenins went up and down with the price of gold .

At least Igor offers for USD 2k an Lenin T5 / V1 with the dimple on the av. ...

Does anyone have any results of Dimitry's N.Y.-auction of today ?

Best regards

Christian

[new world]

Auction wil take place in about 10 hours. I guess we will know the result in the next couple of days.

William

[Ed_Haynes]

While I have not yet seen full results, I have been told:

Screwback gold-head Lenin with document - $150,000

Screwback silver-head Lenin - $43,250

Regular screwback Lenin - $14,000

So . . . for your next "hobby" . . . ????

Edited January 11, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[new world]

...

Screwback gold-head Lenin with document - $150,000

...

That is insane!

Are you sure the number is accurate?

William

[Ed_Haynes]

That is insane!

Are you sure the number is accurate?

William

Not completely, but this is what I was told. It was a lovely set, but THAT lovely?!?!?

I gather most sales were to Russians. Anyone surprised?

I hope the results will be available online some day.

[new world]

Igor has one Golden Head for sale for $11,000.

It's without document and number has been altered, but it's almost 15 (!!!!) less than the one sold last night.

W

[Elmar Lang]

...and please don't forget that a (honestly quite rare) screwback Order of the Red Banner with "2" was sold at an auction of Thies in October 2007 for ? 15.000,- plus buyer's premium.

Again, about Russia and its new phaleristic market, let's not forget for how much Russian Imperial orders are sold, lately. I'm not speaking about most rare orders, but simply the most common classes of the St. Stanislas Order...

Excuse me for this nearly off-topic reply, but I cannot forget those days in the years 1987-1994, when many CCCP pieces were available for unrealistic (but interesting for us collectors) prices...

Best wishes,

Enzo

[Wild Card]

How about 500K (that's half a million $US w/o commission) for a magnificent very old Saint Anna with case?

I was there and it was a very bumpy ride!

Edited January 11, 2008 by Wild Card

[Bill Garvy]

As of this morning the $11K "Gold Head" has been sold. . .

[new world]

I think this is really the end of the road of Soviet collecting for most of ordinary collectors.

Sad part is that now every seller out there will be using prices from that auction as reference point.

This stuff makes German WW2 awards look like bargains.

[Ed_Haynes]

This stuff makes German WW2 awards look like bargains.

As they should be since the can't be researched and therefore have NO history to them.

But, when you say

. . . this is really the end of the road of Soviet collecting for most of ordinary collectors.

you are dead on target. None of us stand a chance against Russian Mafia Money. I'm not so sad to see these things going Home, but I wish I were more certain they were going to collectiors and not just to investor-accumulators money boys.

[Guest Rick Research]

What makes no sense to me is that these prices are not SUSTAINABLE. This is like the Dutch "tulip mania" of the 17th century.

As I've said before, when Things Go Boom, in the wild scramble for self-preservation and finding safe corners...

NOBODY is going to pay these kinds of prices when the market floods with political/legal refugees.

Paying 10... 50 ... 3,000 times what something is "worth" is clinically insane.

At some point, when the music stops...

there aren't going to be enough chairs.

"New money" just can't throw it away fast enough--the fools.

The exact situation appears to be playing out in the (sniff) "fine arts" market. Your average old Impressionist is now going for the eight figures they brought with Japanese buyers in the 1980s.

Yeah, THAT worked out well, didn't it?

Me? I'd be buying my own private S.P.E.C.T.R.E. island someplace warm and pliable.

[Elmar Lang]

Hi,

I've had a lot of fun, in the '80s-early '90s, collecting orders and decorations of the ex-USSR as a "divertissement" from my central collecting theme: Austria-Hungary. I agree that now I couldn't afford most of the then relatively cheap pieces.

Now I'm afraid that when Russian collectors would have bought every tsarist and soviet piece, from the cheapest to the rarest one, they could decide to collect western european orders...

Enzo