Guest Rick Research Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Well, from that serial number, you know IMMEDIATELY that the recipient got it for either 20 or 30 years of long service in the very last mass long service awards Ukaz on 30 December 1956-- and that obviously he had ONE Red Banner already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lapa Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Yes, is always the same thing...I?ve ever think the th SN of the USSR orders are enought to find the recipient name and so on, but it seems that it?s neccesary to kno the name of the recipient...??So I must admit that a large part of my collection is composed by "pretty piece of locked-up history"...? Sadly...Miguel Miguel,I don't think that you have to apologize for anything. Collecting is a private matter, and a matter of private, personal choices. To some, it is hunting down the thinest sub-sub-sub-variety, to others, it is the history, to others yet, it will be god knows what. One is obviously free think that he'd do things differently if s/he owned a specific piece.I seem to detect a hint of animosity toward "clean order collectors", in this thread in particular, but in quite a few other areas of this forum too. I personally regret this fact since, IMHO, there is no right or wrong way of collecting, there are simply different and various ways to do so, each of them aimed at bringing a collector the specific type of enjoyment he is seeking.Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipnos Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Miguel,I don't think that you have to apologize for anything. Collecting is a private matter, and a matter of private, personal choices. To some, it is hunting down the thinest sub-sub-sub-variety, to others, it is the history, to others yet, it will be god knows what. One is obviously free think that he'd do things differently if s/he owned a specific piece.I seem to detect a hint of animosity toward "clean order collectors", in this thread in particular, but in quite a few other areas of this forum too. I personally regret this fact since, IMHO, there is no right or wrong way of collecting, there are simply different and various ways to do so, each of them aimed at bringing a collector the specific type of enjoyment he is seeking.MarcNot Any hint of animosity, but the feeling that I?ve for a lot of time collecting on my own, outside any forum and in a desert like surroundings...(Not specially easy to collect here, in Spain, and in Valencia in particular...One thiNk thaT nothing of this world exist outside of Madrid and Barcelona...). So The world internet open before my hungry eyes was of a world of plenty...So, possibly, I was something of acritical in my first buys of medals&orders, and after this I?ll try to focus more...but the scarcity of informations, and Books and the unknowledge of other forums...are very harming to my line of collect...You know some greedy interest to find something in your own field of interest, but no possibility to pause and take time for the studying of the piece in question. So find this forum both stimulating and awesome...in the wide of my pretty locked things. Well I?ll pest you with questions till you wish I collect beefcans... RegardsMiguel a close up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 You collect those? Me too!!!!! Noooooooo.... that is what we are here for. More areas than anyplace else and of course NOBODY is "normal" unlessthey collect what WE do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hipnos Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Miguel,It looks good to me; I tend to think that it is genuine.If you can, for confirmation, please post hi-res scans of the front (central area with round wreath, and cartouche and surroundings) and the back (mintmark, S/N and cartouche).Marc a close up...Miguel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new world Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 From reserach point of view, why do many of us look down at long service awards? If I ran research on a long service Red Banner and it turns out to be given for time of service to true hero, I would be quite exceited! Honestly, how many of us would say NO to a RB to a person who earned several combat awards during WWII?William Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I agree. While a long service award may be "boring" in itself-- it means that the recipient was an officer, and will have a traceable career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 Dear Miguel,which dealer offers that outstanding well preserved RB#2 for less than 20 % of it's current market value ?Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I didn't know the prices where that expensive for long service Red Banners!http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...W:IT&ih=007Or how about this late war Red Banner for $717?http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=170198456037 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 (edited) We may try to rationalize that by saying that it is a MMD production, the oval type with a small flame, of which approximately 27,000 were manufactured, and it is in perfect condition.I guess I'm not that kind of collector. The last thing I mather is all those small different variations. What I see is an overpriced long service Red banner in very good condition that's it. However you are right that "there is no right or wrong way of collecting", expect for people breaking groups because they collect a particular sub-variation. Edited March 11, 2008 by Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lapa Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 a close up...Miguel Miguel,I think that it is a genuine one.Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 I have been following these daily on Ebay for the past two weeks and it seems like the average closing price on these is going above 600 dollars now!!! The price of a basic ORB is going up DAILY!! It is hard to believe that there were over 500,000 of these awarded!! I should have bought a lot more of them when they were a mere 20 dollars a pop!!This one just closed at 665 dollars- Unresearched #161928. Enamel is perfect, only the tiniest amount of gilt wear on a couple of the highest spots. Ring appears unopened. Ribbon is clean and very bright, could be a replacement but it seems to me to be an original.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...A:IT&ih=013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Dear Paul,that's a quite fair & moderate price, if you consider, that this ORB is a GPW & battle award, according to the s/n.Best regards ChristianI have been following these daily on Ebay for the past two weeks and it seems like the average closing price on these is going above 600 dollars now!!! The price of a basic ORB is going up DAILY!! It is hard to believe that there were over 500,000 of these awarded!! I should have bought a lot more of them when they were a mere 20 dollars a pop!!This one just closed at 665 dollars- Unresearched #161928. Enamel is perfect, only the tiniest amount of gilt wear on a couple of the highest spots. Ring appears unopened. Ribbon is clean and very bright, could be a replacement but it seems to me to be an original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matteti Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Dear Paul,that's a quite fair & moderate price, if you consider, that this ORB is a GPW & battle award, according to the s/n.Best regards ChristianHello Christian. Not so sure it's a battle award. Could well be for 20 years of service.According to my data, the number is in the range for November 3, 1944 long service Ukaz. Only research could provide a conclusive answer.114934 03/11/1944 127731 31/07/44 133595 19/10/44 139041 11/1944 140534 11/1944 143574 08/1944 155077 06/06/45 155357 03/1944 172456 08/1944 173253 11/1944 177574 03/11/44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Insane. I have #161,653, so I will tell my Heirs & Assigns to price accordingly after my demise, having paid about $30 for it. Almost certainly a 3 November 1944 long service award (see the posted serial numbers/verified dates PINNED thread).There is NO justification--none, ZERO-- for this sort of price on awards issued in the hundreds of thousands and millions (Red Stars). It should no longer amaze me how stupid people can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 When a feeding frenzy starts, the sharks usually do not abide by logical rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 But usually enough of the chum escape to learn better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Order of the Red Stars have generally been closing at prices between 50 and 100 dollars. Not bad for them being so very rare(I think about 4 million?). I am looking at a real nice one with six digits for 173 dollars with a day remaining on the bid.#121476http://cgi.ebay.com/ORDER-OF-THE-RED-STAR-...1QQcmdZViewItemBear in mind, I am not angry. I am simply very amused. I remember almost trading my entire Soviet collection for a Valmet Military Rifle back in 1998. The rifle was priced at 1100 dollars. I remember the seller of the rifle saying that while he thought that the lot of medals and orders was very attractive, but he had no demand for things that are common and held no monetary value. He did say that he would try to help me by giving me 500 dollars for the lot(I think that my stuff was worth about 1400 dollars, back then). I am glad that I did not take him up on that! I wonder if he knows what he missed out on! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 But usually enough of the chum escape to learn better. Perhaps. But who plays the "sharks" and who plays the "chum" in this scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 (edited) Perhaps. But who plays the "sharks" and who plays the "chum" in this scenario?Dear Ed,that's a question, impossible to answer right now ...Is someone a "shark", who sells some gems of his Soviet collection at an auction with a net-profit of more than 1000 % (or much more) ? Maybe the same person feels himself in 1 or 2 years as "chum" .In my opinion, orders & medals (+ the history behind the items) belong to the sphere of real & eternal values - contrary to all these "financial values". O.K., if you need urgently some cash for i.e. balancing out your housing loan (or if your wife wants a new car ), then it will make sense to sell now some items of your collection to one of these rich Russian collectors. If you don't need cash now at the moment, keep your Soviet gems, because they are "real" .We (old) collectors of Soviet orders & medals can be happy, that we got our gems for an "apple & egg" during the early 1990s, due to the economic desaster in Russia. I never paid more, than USD 20,- for such an RB in question in the 1990s ... . On the other side, it is a moral & ethic question: We all profited out of the misery of the Russian people . But we keep them (in bank vaults), show them at GMIC and - very important - research them, to keep the memory up of the heroic deeds of the multinational soldiers of the Red Army .Just my thoughts about the topic ...Best regards Christian Edited March 15, 2008 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 (edited) Dear Matteti,you are right - let's say, there is a 50:50 chance that it is a true battle award .Anyhow, have a look at the website http://www.russianglory.com/soviet_orders.htm , always known for good items at (rather) moderate prices. The paid price for that RB still looks rather fair, I guess .The RB is an important order in the history of the CCCP - and there is a big demand for that order in Russia. 15 years ago, you got the ident RB for USD 20,-, but now - according to the economic laws of supply & demand - the price tag moved up to USD 600,- or more.That's capitalism !Best regards ChristianHello Christian. Not so sure it's a battle award. Could well be for 20 years of service.According to my data, the number is in the range for November 3, 1944 long service Ukaz. Only research could provide a conclusive answer.114934 03/11/1944 127731 31/07/44 133595 19/10/44 139041 11/1944 140534 11/1944 143574 08/1944 155077 06/06/45 155357 03/1944 172456 08/1944 173253 11/1944 177574 03/11/44 Edited March 15, 2008 by Christian Zulus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Is someone a "shark", who sells some gems of his Soviet collection at an auction with a net-profit of more than 1000 % (or much more) ? Maybe the same person feels himself in 1 or 2 years as "chum" .In my opinion, orders & medals (+ the history behind the items) belong to the sphere of real & eternal values - contrary to all these "financial values". O.K., if you need urgently some cash for i.e. balancing out your housing loan (or if your wife wants a new car ), then it will make sense to sell now some items of your collection to one of these rich Russian collectors. If you don't need cash now at the moment, keep your Soviet gems, because they are "real" .We (old) collectors of Soviet orders & medals can be happy, that we got our gems for an "apple & egg" during the early 1990s, due to the economic desaster in Russia. I never paid more, than USD 20,- for such an RB in question in the 1990s ... . On the other side, it is a moral & ethic question: We all profited out of the misery of the Russian people . But we keep them (in bank vaults), show them at GMIC and - very important - research them, to keep the memory up of the heroic deeds of the multinational soldiers of the Red Army .Just my thoughts about the topic ...Best regards ChristianWell said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 15, 2008 Share Posted March 15, 2008 Well said. Many thanks, Paul Best regards Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 (edited) We (old) collectors of Soviet orders & medals can be happy, that we got our gems for an "apple & egg" during the early 1990s, due to the economic desaster in Russia. I never paid more, than USD 20,- for such an RB in question in the 1990s ... . On the other side, it is a moral & ethic question: We all profited out of the misery of the Russian people Well for my part I never paid those prices because I started collecting in 2004, so I never took profit of the break-up od the Soviet Union neither the Russian financial crisis in 1999. I paid my Red Banners around $100 - $120 which "old" collector said these were "insane" prices at the time. I must have spent the half of my student loan in my collection and I still lack many pieces in my collection that I regret I didn't bought from (Alexei) Nota Bene before he closed his shop. Now I regret, because at the time I didn't really have to money to spend on those items. I'm not even sure if I will get one day a Lenin order or a Nevsky order. I don't even have the Friendship Order. Too bad. Anyway, I'm happy with what I have got during my studies and it' now s a shame that the prices have gone really insane.Is Soviet collecting really mainstream by now or it's just the fluctuation of the Russian market? Edited March 16, 2008 by Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Zulus Posted March 16, 2008 Share Posted March 16, 2008 Dear Bryan,you have an excellent YU-collection - much better, than my own one .Looking for a documented & researched Lenin-screwback (military!) + a documented & researched Nevsky type 2 (maybe both in a group ) you will have the choice: Either a well-preserved second-hand Porsche, or these two items .But the FoN - even documented ones - is still rather moderate priced and that order IS a beauty .Best regards BTW: I have neither a Porsche, nor a Lenin-screwback .Well for my part I never paid those prices because I started collecting in 2004, so I never took profit of the break-up od the Soviet Union neither the Russian financial crisis in 1999. I paid my Red Banners around $100 - $120 which "old" collector said these were "insane" prices at the time. I must have spent the half of my student loan in my collection and I still lack many pieces in my collection that I regret I didn't bought from (Alexei) Nota Bene before he closed his shop. Now I regret, because at the time I didn't really have to money to spend on those items. I'm not even sure if I will get one day a Lenin order or a Nevsky order. I don't even have the Friendship Order. Too bad. Anyway, I'm happy with what I have got during my studies and it' now s a shame that the prices have gone really insane.Is Soviet collecting really mainstream by now or it's just the fluctuation of the Russian market? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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