Soviet about price of a red star

[skyinmoon]

Hello everyone:

I met a dealer on internet and interested in his red star with 6 digi sn. The enamel has been repaired on 3o'clock arm, and the repaired area is a little washed-out. He asked 150USD for this order.

My question is:is it a good or bad price for this red star? Consider the repaired area. Thanks a lot for your opinion.

Here is the photo he gave me:

Edited July 25, 2008 by skyinmoon

[skyinmoon]

reverse

[Ferdinand]

Considering the low serial number I think this is a fair price nowadays.

[Paul R]

Considering the low serial number I think this is a fair price nowadays.

WOW! Really? :speechless1:

[Ed_Haynes]

WOW! Really?

Fair or not, sane or not, those are Red Star prices in these dark and crazy days. For a six-digit one not so bad, but you see prices at and above that level for 7-digit Red Stars. The happy (and sane) days are long gone.

A well known NJ dealer has 7-digit varieties ranging from $130 to $260. A 5-digit at $2400 and a 7-digit duplicate at $685.

I'd hate to be just starting Soviet awards now!!

Edited July 25, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Lapa]

Considering the low serial number I think this is a fair price nowadays.

Given the fact that the enamel is repaired, that would be the high end of the range IMHO.

Marc

[Ed_Haynes]

Given the fact that the enamel is repaired, that would be the high end of the range IMHO.

Marc

For a "numismatic standards" collector, yes it might be high. Good point, Marc. For a "historical value" collector, the damage doesn't matter (much).

Edited July 25, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Lapa]

For a "numismatic standards" collector, yes it might be high. Good point, Marc. For a "historical value" collector, the damage doesn't matter (much).

Ed,

Agreed that from a historical perspective, broken enamel does not matter too much. But since we are living in this mercantile world, what is worth "historical value"?

Marc

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed,

Agreed that from a historical perspective, broken enamel does not matter too much. But since we are living in this mercantile world, what is worth "historical value"?

Marc

To some collectors (and this forum, I think, has more than some), it matters a great deal. I (and others) are quite willing to pay money to research a piece that cost $20 or so. For the type collector, this seems lunatic, I am sure. For me (and others) it is ALL ABOUT the history. This is why for some unnamed unnumbered ahistorical medals hold little value or interest.

[Guest Rick Research]

Yeah. As is most often the case I agree completely with Ed.

A loose, undocumented, unresearched piece like this is... just "broken."

If it had come with an Orders Book with the recipient's photo, or HAD research already-- then it would be desirable to me.

Not maybe at current prices, but Back In The Day.

These "things" are NOT "worth" the National Currency Units as... things. They are "worth" remembering the lives of the Real People who received them. I don't care about Red Stars or whatever. I care about the lives of the Soviet citizens who received awards. Memory, and not silver and (broken) enamel is the attraction for me. That's why current prices make me go

:beer:

[Lapa]

Yeah. As is most often the case I agree completely with Ed.

A loose, undocumented, unresearched piece like this is... just "broken."

If it had come with an Orders Book with the recipient's photo, or HAD research already-- then it would be desirable to me.

Not maybe at current prices, but Back In The Day.

These "things" are NOT "worth" the National Currency Units as... things. They are "worth" remembering the lives of the Real People who received them. I don't care about Red Stars or whatever. I care about the lives of the Soviet citizens who received awards. Memory, and not silver and (broken) enamel is the attraction for me. That's why current prices make me go

Point in case

Marc

[Ed_Haynes]

Yet it is numberd, it can be researched (in theory, should one live long enough) and the history can be recovered.

You know, it doesn't bother me in the slightest that Major Grigory Yakovlevich Ivanov's OPW is missing enamel -- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=23128 -- or that Colonel Nikolai Ivanovich Vavenko's Red Star -- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=10376 -- or Nikolai Andreiovich Lyashenko's Red Banner -- http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=8387 -- are just lonesome singles.

If I didn't (or couldn't) have names and stories and sometimes pictures to go with these, would I bother? Probably not. But being numbered, there's always hope and there's always history (some history being sexier that others).

[JimZ]

Is the price high.... NO.... considering what the price will be in 3 years time.

What I may have overpaid in terms of price I will make back three, four and five fold if and when I sell my collection. And each time we say the prices cannot go higher.... that's just what they do! With today's prices I find it hard to increase my collection, and that is kind of killing off the fun.

Sigh!

Jim

[Paul R]

Fair or not, sane or not, those are Red Star prices in these dark and crazy days. For a six-digit one not so bad, but you see prices at and above that level for 7-digit Red Stars. The happy (and sane) days are long gone.

A well known NJ dealer has 7-digit varieties ranging from $130 to $260. A 5-digit at $2400 and a 7-digit duplicate at $685.

I'd hate to be just starting Soviet awards now!!

I would not start collecting them now. I am just glad that I did not get rid of mine, as I considered it more than once.

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

I would like to echo Ed Haynes? point (and it?s value) that, essentially, if a piece is numbered the recipient and deed can be researched and identified and it?s history can once again be brought to light. This is a situation which, as far as I know is unique to Soviet awards; and is probably the main reason, along with a new understanding of the Soviet role and sacrifice in the GPW, that I started to collect Soviet.

The pricing situation is most unfortunate for collectors. It is good to see that we seem to have recognized the realities of supply and demand and have gotten beyond blaming dealers for these insane prices. As far as those who ?collect? as an investment, I can only say that sooner or later every bubble bursts and when this one goes, I hope that you get stuck good.

I do find it curious that no one brings up the situation where, as I understand it, like back in the good old, bad old, days - what?s in Russia, or goes back to Russia, stays in Russia. Try to justify that one; and imagine if every country, government or whatever suffered a similar paranoia. At any rate, this of course diminishes supply, at least to collectors outside of Russia, which, in theory should raise prices; but I see it as having another interesting effect as well - a rapidly diminishing interest on the part of non Russian collectors towards Soviet awards.

Regards,

Wild Card

Edited July 26, 2008 by Wild Card

[skyinmoon]

To some collectors (and this forum, I think, has more than some), it matters a great deal. I (and others) are quite willing to pay money to research a piece that cost $20 or so. For the type collector, this seems lunatic, I am sure. For me (and others) it is ALL ABOUT the history. This is why for some unnamed unnumbered ahistorical medals hold little value or interest.

Agree with you, Ed.

I think I am a collector care about the history of my collection. Every order means an outstanding story of the recipient, especially an order awarded in the war era. This red star may awarded to a soldier during WW2, it is the reason encourages me to ask for your help using my poor English(I always read topics and don't express my opinion, I am afraid my English can not be understood).

I have already paid for the order and will receive it in 3 days. I will release a new topic then ,because it's my first red star.

Thanks a lot for everyone's opinion.

[Ulsterman]

Good stuff! I would buy it.

I miss the $20 days though. It wasn't so long ago.

[Lapa]

People,

It seems to me that 2 aspects are simply getting agglomerated into one here: historical value and commercial value, although I agree that they may be related to a point.

I have never questioned or criticized the historical approach to collecting. Now, I can readily understand that, from a historical point of view, a long-service ORS definitely doesn't have quite the same appeal - heh, "value" (in historical terms, that is) - as, say, the one received by the private that took Von Paulus prisoner.

On the other hand, an unresearched ORS with broken enamel is just that: a Red Star, unresearched and broken. I agree that it holds some historical interest - its recipient most likely did something specific in order to receive it. But as it stands, alone and broken, it is all but potential, and as such, IMHO, does not warrant any sort of a premium.

Following the logic that has been exposed in the previous few posts, why should any unresearched, broken Red Star be offered for a mere $150? After all, it does hold heaps of human history, albeit more or less interesting. So, what is the value of potential here? $0.77, $200, $500, $7,523 or $1,000,000?

Had this star been researched, I agree that it would have been a completely different ballgame; we'd have known for sure that it was a reward for an unbelievable feat of courage, or on the contrary some piece of candy for a long-forgotten bureaucrat for whom the word "action" meant getting to the office every day on time. Value (historical and commercial in this case) would have been markedly different.

But that was not the case, and - at the risk of ruffling some feathers by not being "politically correct for this forum" - it remains an ORS with broken enamel that could possibly, some day, be researched, and turn out to have some historical value beyond its mercantile one; or not!

Marc

[Ed_Haynes]

What you call "mercantile value" is quite simply only what some damn fool is willing to pay for the thing on any given day. The only "real" value is what you'd get if you melted it down for the silver content (which is, after also, also an artificial value, as you can't eat silver, or at least it has minimal nutritional content). There is an assumption in play here that "numismatic value" is real but "historical value" isn't. Here is where I fear there is much incomprehension. If you choose not to pay an asking price because something is damaged and I do because I think it is of historical value, the "mercantile value" is the same isn't it? If it remains unsold, for whatever reason, it has no "mercantile value" but if someone is willing to pay $4000 at auction (broken group perhaps? though "numismatic" collectors may not understand this?) then that is the "mercantile value". I am having some trouble here, as I don't recall the term "mercantile value" from ECON 1010 all those decades ago.

But all this may be

While I, too, see the asking price here as high, it may be because I am, as are others, "an old fart" (a technical term I do recall from ECON 101, but there relating to the professor) and remember when I bought my first Red Star for, I think, $10 (and that from Igor).

[paddywhack]

will the bubble burst on soviet prices? probably not! EVERY year i see thread after thread on how third reich prices are set to crash and as of yet they haven't! same for the soviet stuff HOWEVER the current economic climate could well see alot of people selling off there orders,finding they cant get the price they want and dropping the price!it might might not happen!as for the red star!at the current rate yeah that pretty good i think!over here in dublin expect to pay E150 for 7 digit one!!!!!

[paddywhack]

oh and going by echos of war i reckon this was awarded near-ish the end of 43! (im sure some other very nice forum member will get that down to a region and a month!!! )

[Ed_Haynes]

Someone out there seems to have cash?!

[paddywhack]

well it aint me sadly!!! :beer:

[Ed_Haynes]

well it aint me sadly!!!

I've just made what I FULLY expect to be my last Soviet purchases. Herefater, I but only reserach, books, and if I can find a source language lessopns.

[Paul R]

Someone out there seems to have cash?!

I know!!! That 500,000+ dollar set has sold!