FrontlineAntiques Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 This is selling on ebay, and for good money too! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/German-WW2-Medal-Bar-Knights-Cross_W0QQitemZ230398766714QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Collectables_Militaria_LE?hash=item35a4d62e7a I didnt know whether to point and laugh or run away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 This is selling on ebay, and for good money too! http://cgi.ebay.co.u...=item35a4d62e7a I didnt know whether to point and laugh or run away! The "No Returns" says it all. It seems the site is a rogues charter which in many ways undermines the honest people selling decent items. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrontlineAntiques Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 The question is who would bid on it?? I am fairly new to TR and have to ask a lot of questions and tend o get my thoughts on items backed up by more experienced collectors, but anyone bidding on an abhoration like that has more money than sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksc Posted November 14, 2009 Share Posted November 14, 2009 looks nice, knightscross with oakleaf,honor badge of the army a good combination, but panzerkampfabz in bronze(panzergrenadiers)& single combat tank destroyers bage with a silver infantery assault badge (infantery or mountain troops)nearly impossobile. In the early 80s the market was overrun with single ribbon insignia most of them on pins for the civilian dress,so it creates a lot of home work for severall dealers(break down pins and put them on ribbon bars,but badges could be original 1957 made,why would it be faked?? you can still pick it up at any fleamarket or military fair. late 80s steihauer & luck opened there old store m 1957 insignia for the market incl the ribbons even in holland we had a new german invasion. Reverse backclothing looks glued??normally you must see stickwork of the needle and it is nice and shinny made,not old and worn by a bundeswehrveteran. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Wolfe Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 My TR collection is small and I am very cautious about purchasing anything new for fear it will be a fake. Finaly here is something that not even someone with my limited knowledge would bid on. Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrontlineAntiques Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 It sold for £102! Unbelievable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Was the Olympic medal banned in 1957? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 (edited) Ulsterman, I don't have a complete list of approved 1957 awards, at least not yet, but I don't see any reason why it should not be authorized for wear. It was not an award of the party but a national award. Unfortunately, most reference books available at the present only list the authorized military awards. There were many civilian awards that were also authorized for wear. Personally, I do not see anything wrong with this ribbon bar. The lack of apparent wear on the back proves nothing. Why would there be wear on something that sits on a uniform and does not move? There were two methods of fastening these bars to a uniform. One with a pin such as this one and the other with pins that went through the uniform and were held on with small devices on the back similar to those found on women's earrings. Also, the backing on these bars can be found in a number of different colours. Here is an example from my collection of the ribbon bar worn on the uniform of Generalmajor Dr. Ebeling, Chief Flight Surgeon of the Bundewehr Luftwaffe upon his retirement. Regards, Gordon Edited November 18, 2009 by Gordon Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 All three Olympia decorations were "re_issued". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Peter, Thanks for confirming this fact for us. Do you know where I could get a list of all of the decorations and awards that were re-issued in 1957? Regards, Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul wood Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 It sold for £102! Unbelievable! As W. C. Fields said "Never give a sucker an even break." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Gordon, here's a rather poor scan of the 1957 decorations. Perhaps Uwe will present a better one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulsterman Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Thanks!! I just learned something there- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 Gordon, here's a rather poor scan of the 1957 decorations. Perhaps Uwe will present a better one. Peter, Thanks for the pictures. I have a number of books with the military 1957 awards in them. What I was looking for was the name of a book, or list, that included all of the awards. Both military and civilian. If you can not supply that, as you say, perhaps Uwe can. Regards, Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted November 19, 2009 Share Posted November 19, 2009 As W. C. Fields said "Never give a sucker an even break." Paul, A question. Are you well aware of the current price these ribbon bars bring on the open market in Germany? Regards, Gordon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) I believe that the bar shown by our member FrontlineAntiques is a fantasy arrangement, assembled with original pieces in the original manner. One could buy still in the mid nineties these bars from Military surplus-stock dealers - you told them what you wanted and they put it together for you. US-Waren Schaake mail order catalog of 1993. Translation: Ribbon-bars to the specifications of the Bundeswehr and Grenzschutz (border guards). You can request any arrangement of WWII awards and we will build your ribbon-bar for 10 to 15 Marks per award. . Edited November 22, 2009 by Naxos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) From the same catalog: You can still buy this cheap crap brand new in any combo you want. For me it has no historical value. Edited November 22, 2009 by Naxos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytop Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Hi, I must assist Naxos, the first one is a fantasy bar. No EK 2 (IC 2), wrong order of precedence, all bars "must have" a mini on it (e.g. Ostmedaille is original without a mini, see Post 8). Everybody could create such a ribbon bar. But I must say, that the order of precedence on the ribbon bar of Generalmajor Dr. Ebeling is also not correct , in the second row the German Cross and the Verdienstkreuz 1. Klasse must be changed (Gordon, please do not change it). Here is the better reference for all 1957 versions: http://www.ordensmus...16Jan0857er.pdf Uwe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 "a fantasy arrangement, assembled with original pieces in the original manner". what about the "Kreta" and the "TDB" ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) "a fantasy arrangement, assembled with original pieces in the original manner". what about the "Kreta" and the "TDB" With "original" I meant original post-war (post 1957) Bundeswehr ribbon bar parts and assembly. Edited November 22, 2009 by Naxos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Thanks for the images. So we now differetiate "original" post-war versus "non-original" dito? Perhaps I'm just lost in translation, but I assume I'm correct saying the TDB isn't referred to in the 1957 regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naxos Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Thanks for the images. So we now differetiate "original" post-war versus "non-original" dito? Perhaps I'm just lost in translation, but I assume I'm correct saying the TDB isn't referred to in the 1957 regulations. Peter, the parts that were used to make the bars of the above Officers are still available. Anyone can have a bar made to their whishes. So it becomes virtually impossible to differentiate between an "original" i.e. worn by a real officer of the Bundeswehr and a fantasy bar. The TDB and cuff-titles did not need a design change - therefore not mentioned in the 1957 law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter J Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 There you go, my bad. I should have figured that out myself :banger: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Craig Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 (edited) Uwe, Thanks for your comments. I have no intention of changing Ebelings ribbon bar. That is the way it was worn by him so it will remain that way. Gentlemen, However, I can not agree with comments that the first bar posted is a fantasy piece. There is no proof of that. Everyone is entitled to their personal opinion however. Anyone who has studied German ribbon and medal bars, or those of other countries, will be aware original bars of both kinds frequently have mistakes in them. The fact that parts to make such a ribbon bar are still available is also not proof that all bars such as the first one posted are fake. That is pure supposition with no proof to support it. I have seen made up Third Reich bars with AFRICA cuff band ribbons added to them. They sell like hot cakes and these bars are obviously faked. Thanks to all who have posted comments to this thread. I am sure we have all learned a lot from each others point of view. Regards, Gordon Edited November 22, 2009 by Gordon Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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