Mongolia Sukhbaatar Order

[Bob]

Bob,

You seem to be putting too high expectations on research.

Don't be surprised if most of the citations turn out to be for excelling in hearding animals or for long service. I don't see how such sitations could add anything to the value of the award.

William

My thoughts were more that lower numbered awards woud probably have lower chance of being for long service and therefore more "attractive" (regardless of the "value" of getting an SB for herding cattle vs. inventing a new whatever). Since screwbacks are lower numbered than pinbacks... that's what I was referring to.

750 USD "extra" for purely the screw in itself seems senseless to me

[new world]

...

750 USD "extra" for purely the screw in itself seems senseless to me

That's common in Soviet awards field - screwbacks are way more expensive than later suspended awards.

[Bob]

Sure to make you cry

[new world]

Two SB orders were offered for sale in Russia last week:

Screwback - SN 177 - for $3,800

Pinback - SN 2082 - for $3,500

They did not sell at these prices. I guess after all there's a limit to what colectors are willing to pay.

William

[Ed_Haynes]

Interesting, William. #2082 is way (WAY) beyond the maximum recorded for a normal silver pinback (which is #2006), and well into the range for what I think is a fraudulently named nasty-brassy Sukhbaatar (the only one recorded is #2057, which I doubt). I'd want a close sniff at that one . . . .

Any idea what the #2082 was???

Edited February 28, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[new world]

Sukhe Bator which SN 2082

[new world]

face of SN 2082

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks. That sets the new upper limit for type 2 (and makes the nasty-brassy ones seem even more illegitimate).

[new world]

Ed,

It looks like we found new highest serial number.

It's not than much higher than previously known SN 2006, the difference is less than 80.

These high numbers were probably non-awarded examples, but we will know sure once research is available.

William

[Ed_Haynes]

These high numbers were probably non-awarded examples, but we will know sure once research is available.

Possibly, but it is stil being awarded.

[fjcp]

Ed,

It looks like we found new highest serial number.

It's not than much higher than previously known SN 2006, the difference is less than 80.

These high numbers were probably non-awarded examples, but we will know sure once research is available.

William

You may very well be correct William....

That SB sure looks "fresh"...

JC

[new world]

SB #1617 with damage to both red and blue enamels just sold in Russia for equivalent of $2200.

William

[Bob]

When you're the only seller of a screwback easily tracable in the market, I guess the price goes up...

RECENTLY SOLD

pinback

- USD 1.870, nr 1.918, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007

- USD 1.880, nr 1.785, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007 (boxed)

- USD 1.950, nr 860, www.russianglory.com - MARCH 2007

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.100 USD), nr 1.183, www.huesken.com - MARCH 2007

- EURO 1.650 (roughly 2.200 USD), nr 1.514, www.huesken.com - JUNE 2007

- EURO 1.300 (roughly 1.700 USD), nr 1.246, private seller - SEPTEMBER 2007

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.200 USD - before fees!), nr 1.514, Andreas Thies October auction - OCTOBER 2007

- USD 1.850, nr 1.947, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 2.150, nr 1.837, www.collectrussia.com - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 1.950, nr 1.437, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2008

- USD 2.000 (excl. 15% auction premium), nr 1,246, Dmitry Markov auction - JANUARY 2008

- USD 1.925, nr 902, eBay - FEBRUARY 2008

- USD 2.200, nr 1.617, somewhere in Russia - MARCH 2008

screwback

- USD 1.680, nr 644, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2006

- EUR 1.630 (roughly 2.150 USD), nr 585, Albert GMIC - MAY 2007

- USD 2.650, nr 644 (again!), Nota Bene - OCTOBER 2007 (boxed)

- USD 2.900, nr 640, www.collectrussia.com - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 2.500, nr 777, somewhere in Russia - DECEMBER 2007

- USD 3.250 (excl. 15% auction premium), nr 427, Dmitry Markov auction - JANUARY 2008

CURRENTLY FOR SALE

pinback

- USD 2.450, nr 1.764, <a href="http://auction-su.com/-,itemname,160966,id,auctiondetails" target="_blank">http://auction-su.com/-,itemname,160966,id,auctiondetails</a>

- USD 2.750, nr 1.635, www.collectrussia.com

- USD 2.750, nr 860, Nota Bene

screwback

- USD 4.200, nr 227, Coinsell (on eBay)

[new world]

When you're the only seller of a screwback easily tracable in the market, I guess the price goes up...

...

CURRENTLY FOR SALE

...

screwback

- USD 4.200, nr 227, Coinsell (on eBay)

And how long is that order been listed?

I personally don't take this seller and his price seriosly.

Why don't I list a SB for say $8,000 and see if anyone bites ?

[Bob]

I'm sure somebody will bite - just a matter of by when - SB's will continue to rise in price without a doubt in my mind.

[new world]

SB #1617 with damage to both red and blue enamels just sold in Russia for equivalent of $2200.

William

Damaged SB #1617

[new world]

reverse

[Bob]

Pickings are getting thin...

RECENTLY SOLD

pinback

- USD 1.870, nr 1.918, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007

- USD 1.880, nr 1.785, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007 (boxed)

- USD 1.950, nr 860, www.russianglory.com - MARCH 2007

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.100 USD), nr 1.183, www.huesken.com - MARCH 2007

- EURO 1.650 (roughly 2.200 USD), nr 1.514, www.huesken.com - JUNE 2007

- EURO 1.300 (roughly 1.700 USD), nr 1.246, private seller - SEPTEMBER 2007

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.200 USD - before fees!), nr 1.514, Andreas Thies October auction - OCTOBER 2007

- USD 1.850, nr 1.947, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 2.150, nr 1.837, www.collectrussia.com - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 1.950, nr 1.437, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2008

- USD 2.000 (excl. 15% auction premium), nr 1,246, Dmitry Markov auction - JANUARY 2008

- USD 1.925, nr 902, eBay - FEBRUARY 2008

- USD 2.200, nr 1.617, somewhere in Russia - MARCH 2008

- USD 2.750, nr 1.635, www.collectrussia.com - MARCH 2008

screwback

- USD 1.680, nr 644, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2006

- EUR 1.630 (roughly 2.150 USD), nr 585, Albert GMIC - MAY 2007

- USD 2.650, nr 644 (again!), Nota Bene - OCTOBER 2007 (boxed)

- USD 2.900, nr 640, www.collectrussia.com - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 2.500, nr 777, somewhere in Russia - DECEMBER 2007

- USD 3.250 (excl. 15% auction premium), nr 427, Dmitry Markov auction - JANUARY 2008

CURRENTLY FOR SALE

pinback

- USD 2.750, nr 860, Nota Bene

screwback

- USD 4.200, nr 227, Coinsell (on eBay)

[Bob]

Doesn't look like a recession to me...

RECENTLY SOLD

pinback

- USD 1.870, nr 1.918, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007

- USD 1.880, nr 1.785, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007 (boxed)

- USD 1.950, nr 860, www.russianglory.com - MARCH 2007

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.100 USD), nr 1.183, www.huesken.com - MARCH 2007

- EURO 1.650 (roughly 2.200 USD), nr 1.514, www.huesken.com - JUNE 2007

- EURO 1.300 (roughly 1.700 USD), nr 1.246, private seller - SEPTEMBER 2007

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.200 USD - before fees!), nr 1.514, Andreas Thies October auction - OCTOBER 2007

- USD 1.850, nr 1.947, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 2.150, nr 1.837, www.collectrussia.com - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 1.950, nr 1.437, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2008

- USD 2.000 (excl. 15% auction premium), nr 1,246, Dmitry Markov auction - JANUARY 2008

- USD 1.925, nr 902, eBay - FEBRUARY 2008

- USD 2.200, nr 1.617, somewhere in Russia - MARCH 2008

- USD 2.750, nr 1.635, www.collectrussia.com - MARCH 2008

screwback

- USD 1.680, nr 644, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2006

- EUR 1.630 (roughly 2.150 USD), nr 585, Albert GMIC - MAY 2007

- USD 2.650, nr 644 (again!), Nota Bene - OCTOBER 2007 (boxed)

- USD 2.900, nr 640, www.collectrussia.com - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 2.500, nr 777, somewhere in Russia - DECEMBER 2007

- USD 3.250 (excl. 15% auction premium), nr 427, Dmitry Markov auction - JANUARY 2008

CURRENTLY FOR SALE

pinback

- USD 2.750, nr 860, Nota Bene

- USD 3.200, nr 1.600, www.collectrussia.com

screwback

- USD 4.200, nr 227, Coinsell (on eBay)

[Vatjan]

Considering the inflation of the dollar over the last 2 years or so, these skyrocketing prices are not really all that spectacular.

At today's rate, Nota Bene's SB at 2750 USD is equivalent to 1753 Euro.

The SB he had for sale in January 2007 at 1870 USD was equivalent to 1420 Euro at that time.

Not quite a dramatic price increase if you ask me, espicially considering the lower serial number for the SB actually on sale

And no, I will not be doing the same exercise in Tugruks!!!

Jan

Edited April 13, 2008 by Vatjan

[Bob]

So they've not gotten much more expensive in Euros... but try making people who's currency reference is USD (in UB as well) uppreciate that.

RECENTLY SOLD

pinback

- USD 1.870, nr 1.918, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007

- USD 1.880, nr 1.785, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007 (boxed)

- USD 1.950, nr 860, www.russianglory.com - MARCH 2007

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.100 USD), nr 1.183, www.huesken.com - MARCH 2007

- EURO 1.650 (roughly 2.200 USD), nr 1.514, www.huesken.com - JUNE 2007

- EURO 1.300 (roughly 1.700 USD), nr 1.246, private seller - SEPTEMBER 2007

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.200 USD - before fees!), nr 1.514, Andreas Thies October auction - OCTOBER 2007

- USD 1.850, nr 1.947, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 2.150, nr 1.837, www.collectrussia.com - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 1.950, nr 1.437, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2008

- USD 2.000 (excl. 15% auction premium), nr 1,246, Dmitry Markov auction - JANUARY 2008

- USD 1.925, nr 902, eBay - FEBRUARY 2008

- USD 2.200, nr 1.617, somewhere in Russia - MARCH 2008

- USD 2.750, nr 1.635, www.collectrussia.com - MARCH 2008

- USD 2.750, nr 860, Nota Bene - APRIL 2008

screwback

- USD 1.680, nr 644, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2006

- EUR 1.630 (roughly 2.150 USD), nr 585, Albert GMIC - MAY 2007

- USD 2.650, nr 644 (again!), Nota Bene - OCTOBER 2007 (boxed)

- USD 2.900, nr 640, www.collectrussia.com - NOVEMBER 2007

- USD 2.500, nr 777, somewhere in Russia - DECEMBER 2007

- USD 3.250 (excl. 15% auction premium), nr 427, Dmitry Markov auction - JANUARY 2008

CURRENTLY FOR SALE

pinback

- USD 3.200, nr 1.600, www.collectrussia.com

screwback

- USD 4.200, nr 227, Coinsell (on eBay) ???

[Bob]

And now for something insanely ugly. It looks in some areas different than the type 3 Ed posted which may make this either a fake or a variation of type 3.

There is something which is "supposed to" resemble a number on the reverse.

What kind of person would produce something like this and then go home at the end of the day feeling proud of his work

[Ed_Haynes]

Looking through one of Igor's old paper lists (August 1998, not THAT long ago!):

screwback

- USD 1,200, number not given

pinback

- USD 985, nr 1600

[Bob]

Looking through one of Igor's old paper lists (August 1998, not THAT long ago!):

screwback

- USD 1,200, number not given

pinback

- USD 985, nr 1600

I didn't join the Mongolia collecting community until 2005 or so if I recall correctly and, to be honest, would think that for 1998 those prices are actually expensive!

[Ed_Haynes]

I didn't join the Mongolia collecting community until 2005 or so if I recall correctly and, to be honest, would think that for 1998 those prices are actually expensive!

True. It is my sense that they'd have been under $100 in Ulanbaatar in those days (today, UB dealers show you color printouts of Igor's website to establish their prices!).