Mongolia Sukhbaatar Order

[Bob]

I'm going to keep track here a bit of pricing developments specifically of SB's. May be interesting to look back on 1-2 years from now as a general indicator for Mongolian awards.

Recently sold

SCREWBACK

- USD 1.680, nr 644, Nota Bene

And now then the starting point for future, CURRENTLY FOR SALE (please add if I missed some):

PIN BACK

- USD 1.950, nr 860, www.russianglory.com

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.100 USD), nr 1183, www.huesken.com

SCREWBACK

- USD 2.900, nr 640, www.collectrussia.com

[Ed_Haynes]

Excerpted from Bob's really useful master list of serial numbers and dates of award (see http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9917 and THANKS, BOB! ), here are known data points for the Order of Sukhbaatar (A20):

1 1941

24 1946

31 1949

158 24/10/1957

166 29/05/1957

340 1961

341 1961

342 1961

343 1961

344 1961

423 28/11/1962

470 13/12/1963

541 1966

542 1966

558 1966

586 1968

588 1968

589 1968

591 1968

612 10/11/1968

642 12/08/1969

684 15/10/1969

692 1969

803 05/07/1971

919 1971

922 1971

923 1971

924 1971

925 1971

927 1971

928 1971

931 1971

932 1971

933 1971

937 1971

989 1973

1,123 1975

1,255 14/12/1975

1,335 1978

1,404 22/10/1980

1,412 02/12/1980

1,462 08/06/1981

1,463 1981

1,465 1981

1,491 09/07/1981

1,530 1981

1,532 1981

1,548 1981

1,562 1981

1,715 1986

[Bob]

Recently sold

PINBACK

- USD 1.870, nr 1.918, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007

SCREWBACK

- USD 1.680, nr 644, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2007

Currently for sale

PIN BACK

- USD 1.950, nr 860, www.russianglory.com

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.100 USD), nr 1183, www.huesken.com

- USD 1.880, nr 1.785 (boxed), Nota Bene

SCREWBACK

- USD 2.900, nr 640, www.collectrussia.com

[Bob]

Recently sold

PINBACK

- USD 1.870, nr 1.918, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007

- USD 1.880, nr 1.785, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007 (boxed)

SCREWBACK

- USD 1.680, nr 644, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2007

Currently for sale

PIN BACK

- USD 1.950, nr 860, www.russianglory.com

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.100 USD), nr 1183, www.huesken.com

SCREWBACK

- USD 2.900, nr 640, www.collectrussia.com

[Ed_Haynes]

Thanks for the updates, Bob. While they're now an OBSCENE amount of money, given the quality and small numbers awarded, I think they're still a good deal, even though a lot of them were long service awards.

I hope to have some information on potential research options in a few weeks. Shall advise.

Also thinking about a SB exhibit at this year's OMSA.

[Bob]

While enjoying the weight and beauty of a newly arrived SB in my hand, I realized that these were not with Russian mintmarks... for some reason, that surprises me. Why would the Polar Stars have them yet these not?

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. Too many mysteries... with Mongolia being such a small country by population you'd hope that there'd be an easier path to getting answers.

Oh well, patience is a virtue right:)

[fjcp]

Early communist North Korea orders are also un-mintmarked, although definitely made by the Soviet mint.

-

While enjoying the weight and beauty of a newly arrived SB in my hand, I realized that these were not with Russian mintmarks... for some reason, that surprises me. Why would the Polar Stars have them yet these not?

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. Too many mysteries... with Mongolia being such a small country by population you'd hope that there'd be an easier path to getting answers.

Oh well, patience is a virtue right:)

[Sergei]

Bob,

It may be a small country but don't I envy you! This award is a cumulative history of 2,000 years of a unique civilasation. What you have in your posession is an order af magnitude bigger than the 'idols' of our modern culture, i.e. a low calorie diet etc. Treasure it! Buy the way, I do not own one of those.

Sergei

[Ed_Haynes]

While enjoying the weight and beauty of a newly arrived SB in my hand, I realized that these were not with Russian mintmarks... for some reason, that surprises me. Why would the Polar Stars have them yet these not?

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. Too many mysteries... with Mongolia being such a small country by population you'd hope that there'd be an easier path to getting answers.

Oh well, patience is a virtue right:)

No, Bob. An interesting point, though. I have always assumed (with some evidence, to be presented later) that they were manufactured in a Friendly Northern Country, the absence of the familiar МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР (or some such) is noteworthy. Part of the delightful deviance of the Polar Star is the presence or absence of a maker's mark, and that (too) may tell us something?

[Bob]

Recently sold

PINBACK

- USD 1.870, nr 1.918, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007

- USD 1.880, nr 1.785, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007 (boxed)

- USD 1.950, nr 860, www.russianglory.com - MARCH 2007

SCREWBACK

- USD 1.680, nr 644, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2006

Currently for sale

PIN BACK

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.100 USD), nr 1183, www.huesken.com

SCREWBACK

- USD 2.900, nr 640, www.collectrussia.com

[Ed_Haynes]

Interesting data, Bob. Thanks! Pretty much says where the price threshold line lies.

[new world]

Interesting data, Bob. Thanks! Pretty much says where the price threshold line lies.

Bob,

I recall Dmitry Markov had a pinback for sale recently. Does anyone know what it was sold for?

William

[Bob]

Bob,

I recall Dmitry Markov had a pinback for sale recently. Does anyone know what it was sold for?

William

Are you sure? I thought Dmitry Markov had stepped out of Mongolian awards a year or so ago.

[Ed_Haynes]

That is what he told me, Bob. I think he regrets it now, though.

[Bob]

That is what he told me, Bob. I think he regrets it now, though.

Well, it's never too late for him to get back in... although that would probably result in the high-end gaps in my collection becoming even more unattainable.

[new world]

Are you sure? I thought Dmitry Markov had stepped out of Mongolian awards a year or so ago.

May be not that recenlty. He sure had one for sale last year...

[Bob]

While reviewing this thread with much admiration for the beautiful items, I couldn't help but think "actually, in the greater scheme of things, these SB's aren't that expensive":

- arguably the most beautifully designed award on the planet

- high quality of manufacture

- made out of precious metal

- numbered (offering research potential)

- very few publically available for purchase at any point in time

- and, last but not least, max roughly 2.000 in existence

Now... translate that to a Soviet award of similar stature (albeit with a larger "collecting" market) and I can't help but believe that in the not so distant future we'll be seeing 4-5K for an SB.

6 months ago or so I prediced 3K by end of 2006... I was wrong (although only screwback available from dealer is at 2.9K). Still, looking back 1.5 - 2 years ago when these were for sale for well less than 1K... even a "slowdown" in the rate of increasing price level will still mean a dramatic increase. Add opening up of the archives to the recipe and I think we have a pretty explosive mix...

[Ed_Haynes]

I know of several for sale in Ulanbaatar, though most dealers are hoarding them just now, expecting a major price rise. Was shown two (both screwback) with prices attached: $2500 for # 716 and a very silly $15,000 for # 8 (though the recipient was probably a "someone").

[Bob]

With those kind of wholesale prices, it makes it perfectly reasonable to assume that here in the west at the end of the supply chain, well >3K will be the norm going forward. Although I agree, 15K is a "bit" over the top

Will be interesting to find out moving forward how many of these SB's were awarded for something more exotic than long service (whether military or public service... such as herding cattle for 15 years) and if the archives contain more than just a name / award date.

[Bob]

RECENTLY SOLD

pinback

- USD 1.870, nr 1.918, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007

- USD 1.880, nr 1.785, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007 (boxed)

- USD 1.950, nr 860, www.russianglory.com - MARCH 2007

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.100 USD), nr 1183, www.huesken.com - MARCH 2007

screwback

- USD 1.680, nr 644, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2006

CURRENTLY FOR SALE

SCREWBACK

- USD 2.900, nr 640, www.collectrussia.com

=========================

Now... from 1.680 USD (screwback mind you) to 2.100 USD (pinback) is 25% inflation in 4 months...

[Bob]

http://home.kyodo.co.jp/modules/fstStory/i...?storyid=218231

[Stogieman]

Holy smokes, look at the size of his hands!!!

[Ed_Haynes]

Oh yessss!!

I was struck by how popular sumo seems to be on Mongolian TV, it is seen as similar enough to Mongolian wrestling to hold some viewer interest.

[Bob]

RECENTLY SOLD

pinback

- USD 1.870, nr 1.918, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007

- USD 1.880, nr 1.785, Nota Bene - JANUARY 2007 (boxed)

- USD 1.950, nr 860, www.russianglory.com - MARCH 2007

- EURO 1.600 (roughly 2.100 USD), nr 1183, www.huesken.com - MARCH 2007

screwback

- USD 1.680, nr 644, Nota Bene - NOVEMBER 2006

CURRENTLY FOR SALE

SCREWBACK

- USD 2.900, nr 640, www.collectrussia.com

PINBACK

- USD 2.150, nr 1.837, www.collectrussia.com

So... market price on pinback just went up again vs. a month ago.

[Vatjan]

While enjoying the weight and beauty of a newly arrived SB in my hand, I realized that these were not with Russian mintmarks... for some reason, that surprises me. Why would the Polar Stars have them yet these not?

Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. Too many mysteries... with Mongolia being such a small country by population you'd hope that there'd be an easier path to getting answers.

Oh well, patience is a virtue right:)

SB's were awarded from 1945 onwards, only OPS's dating from before 1941 were mintmarked, as were all the other orders from that period.

So at least in this case Polar Stars are no exception to the rule

Jan