Mongolia ORDER OF THE RED COMBAT BANNER

[order_of_victory]

Just spotted this on ebay and thought that you may intrested to see this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...A%3AIT&rd=1

Order of Victory

[Dolf]

Just spotted this on ebay and thought that you may intrested to see this:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...A%3AIT&rd=1

Order of Victory

This/those have been there for quite some time now.

The pic of the front is not of the same piece shown on the pic of the reverse.

The pic of the front is of Order #161.

I know because I took the pic of the piece shown on the obverse pic, as on the obverse/reverse pic shown at the bottom of the page.

Dolf

Edited July 20, 2006 by Dolf

[Bob]

Anybody with a plausible explanation of why there has yet to appear a booklet for these awards?

Perhaps thousands were produced but only a VERY limited number were actually awarded? I.e. we're all buying "souvenirs" from the state mint?

[Stogieman]

Which is exactly why I bought the lowest serial number I had seen yet! #88. Hoping to one day discover it was actually awarded!

[Ed_Haynes]

Until VERY recently, booklets have been retained by the families or otherwise separated. While many that we have seen recently are unissued items from that flood from the state bank, many were issued. Only a more detailed look at the booklets will give us a sense of the issued ranges.

[Ed_Haynes]

Just to update known types/ranges:

1st award

Type 1.1 (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost); Low = 50/High = 2794

Type 1.2 (as above, but with Cyrillic ?B? mintmartk); Low = 1871/High = 1901

Type 2.1 (Pinback 3 rivets; SN at 12 o'clock); Low = 3160/High = 4449

Type 2.2 (Pinback 2 rivets; SN at 5 o'clock); Low = 4685/High = 5380

Type 3.1 (pinback, bronze); Low = 5512/High = 5607

Type 3.2 (pinback, bronze, unnumbered, escapee?)

2nd award

Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 40 awarded?; Low = 12/High = 398

3rd award

Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 10-15 awarded?; Low = 5/High = 200

4th award

Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ?perhaps 4-5 awarded?; Low = 3/High = 86

[Ed_Haynes]

Two new additions, interesting mostly for the serial numbers (which, with long screw-posts, may not scan well -- do I need to drag out the camera?), which arelow enough to fall within the "probably awarded" ranges (unlike most of what we see!). When/if research becomes available, . . . .

First, a third award, # 5. This one is cased, and a larger and more solid case than we are used to.

[Ed_Haynes]

And a fourth award, # 3. I really have my fingers crossed over the future research possibilities of this one.

[Bob]

Here a nice one as well which recently found its way in my "shoebox full of Mongolian stuff". Came without a booklet so it's nice that it did come with a case to keep it nice and warm

4 rivets, serial number under screwpost

serial number 2.369

I have to say, these Mongolian orders never let you down. The design, quality and sheer size / weight are extremely nice.

[Ed_Haynes]

Beautiful, aren't they!

[Ed_Haynes]

In the (unlikely) event anyone still reads these threads, here is a typology and serial number update on this whole series:

A 21/M 5.1 -- THE ORDER OF MILITARY VALOR

1st award (small star, 3 maker?s marks, no s/n)

2nd award (Arabic number ?2? at bottom)

3rd award (Arabic number ?3? at bottom)

4th award (Arabic number ?4? at bottom)

ORDER OF THE RED BANNER OF MILITARY VALOUR

A 21.2/M 5.2 -- 1st award -- Type 1 (large star, МОНДВОР, s/n No) -- Low = 188/High = 613

Type 2 (large star, МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР, s/n No) -- Low = 318/High = ??

A 21.3 -- 2nd award -- (large star, Mongolian number 2) -- Low = ??/High = ??

3rd award -- (large star, Mongolian number 3, not seen?) -- Low = ??/High = ??

4th award -- (large star, Mongolian number 4, not seen?) -- Low = ??/High = ??

ORDER OF THE RED BANNER OF MILITARY VALOUR

A 22.1?/M 6.1 -- 1st award

Type 1.1 (МОНДВОР mintmark; 3 rivets) -- Low = 110/High = ???

Type 1.2 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 3 rivets) -- Low= 44/High=212

Type 1.3.1 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 4 rivets; SN at 6 o'clock near bottom) -- Low = 306/High = 2401

Type 1.3.2 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 4 rivets; SN directly below screwpost) -- Low = 1007/High = 2581

A 22.2/M 6.2 -- 2nd award -- Low = 53/High = 56

A 22.3/M 6.3 -- 3rd award -- Low = ??/High = ??

A 22.4/M 6.4 -- 4th award (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; SN at 6 o'clock near bottom; 4 rivets) -- Low = 74/High = 150

ORDER OF THE RED BANNER OF MILITARY VALOUR

A 23.1?/M 7.1.1 -- 1st award

Type 1.1 (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost) -- Low = 50/High = 2794

Type 1.2 (as above, but with Cyrillic ?B? mintmark) -- Low = 1871/High = 1901

A 24.1/M 7.2 -- Type 2.1 (Pinback 3 rivets; SN at 12 o'clock) -- Low = 3160/High = 4449

A 24.1/M 7.2 -- Type 2.2 (Pinback 2 rivets; SN at 5 o'clock) -- Low = 4685/High = 5380

A 24.2 -- Type 3.1 (pinback, bronze) -- Low = 5512/High = 5607

Type 3.2 (pinback, bronze, unnumbered, escapee?)

A 23.2/M 7.1.2 -- 2nd award -- (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 40 awarded?) -- Low = 12/High = 398

A 23.3/M 71.3 -- 3rd award -- (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 10-15 awarded?) -- Low = 5/High = 200

A 23.4/M 7.1.4 -- 4th award -- (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 4-5 awarded?) -- Low = 3/High = 86

Edited November 12, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Bob]

Weird pricing currently in the market...

4th awarding - odd!

- 2.500 USD for nr 3 on alexei's site

- 3.400 USD for nr 55 on collectrussia

- 1.750 USD for nr 86 on collectrussia

3rd awarding - market aligned

- 1.350 USD for nr 125 on alexei's site

- 1.350 USD for nr 167 on alexei's site

- 1.300 USD for nr 198 on collectrussia

2nd awarding - odd!

- 960 USD for nr 85 on alexei's site

- 950 USD for nr 103 on alexei's site

- 650 USD for nr 191 on collectrussia

- 930 USD for nr 383 on alexei's site (incl. box)

[Stogieman]

When I get one of these, I have tried very hard to keep the serial number under 100.... but reviewing one of Ed's other recent postings about "actual awarded" I balked at Alexei's number 85, second award. Two reasons. It wasn't boxed (my other picayune detail) and about 2X higher than what we know has been awarded so far...

I know, odd.... but an un-serial numbered piece always had the potential to be something awarded, in my eyes..... but when I know up front it came out of a bank vault.... my interest wanes.

[Ed_Haynes]

Excerpted from Bob's really useful master list of serial numbers and dates of award (see http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9917 and THANKS, BOB! ), here is the only known data point for the Order of the Red Banner of Combay Valor (A23/A24):

5,348 09/08/1999

[Ed_Haynes]

In an effort to breathe some life back into the forum, thought I'd share some eye-candy of major types.

No first type (yet); sorry (I really am!). And ignoring the numbered awards for subsequent awardings.

Serial numbers:

323 / 1867

3194 (pinback) / 5607

Edited March 27, 2007 by Ed_Haynes

[Stogieman]

Nice progression Ed. I especially like the earliest one.

[Ed_Haynes]

Nice progression Ed. I especially like the earliest one.

Ohhh . . . how I wish I had the earliest one. Negotiations proceed, slowly.

[Ed_Haynes]

The numbered badges of the A 23 variety. These are cranky to scan, sorry.

Serial numbers:

1867 / 353 (2)

161 (3) / 3 (4)

Are these real awarded specimens or mere bank escapees? We may know this fall. Cross fingers.

[new world]

I have in my collection:

T1: Screwback - 3 rivets # 50, 704, 1871, 1876, 1974, 2244

2nd award # 12, 98, 224, 248

3rd award # 106, 110, 168

4th award # 86

I've noticed some of these serial numbers in my collection!

Collecting community is such a small field, this stuff just keeps changing hands...

William

[Ed_Haynes]

A new high for type 2.2 (and my first of this variety ) -- 5392

[Riley1965]

Also Compliments of Ed!!! My first Order of the Red Banner of Combat Valour.

Doc

[Ed_Haynes]

It has had a hard life, but . . . .

[Megan]

This is the 3rd type, isn't it?

[Ed_Haynes]

This is the 3rd type, isn't it?

Actually, it is far more complex.

See: http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=4240&st=110

This, as I recall, is a Red Banner of Military Valor (1945--), the fourth major variety, a type 1.1. But in poor condition.

To clarify and update the typology referenced above (with Battushig references):

THE ORDER OF MILITARY VALOR (1926-31)

1st award (small star, 3 maker?s marks, no s/n) - A 21

2nd award (Arabic number ?2? at bottom)

3rd award (Arabic number ?3? at bottom)

4th award (Arabic number ?4? at bottom)

ORDER OF THE RED BANNER OF MILITARY VALOUR (1931-40)

1st award:

-- Type 1 (large star, МОНДВОР, s/n No) - Low = 188/High = 613 - A 21.2

-- Type 2 (large star, МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР, s/n No) - Low = 318/High = ??

2nd award (large star, Mongolian number 2) - Low = ??/High = 69 - A 21.3

3rd award (large star, Mongolian number 3, not seen?) - Low = ??/High = ??

4th award - (large star, Mongolian number 4, not seen?) - Low = ??/High = ??

ORDER OF THE RED BANNER OF MILITARY VALOUR (1940-45)

1st award:

-- Type 1.1 (МОНДВОР mintmark; 3 rivets) - Low = 110/High = ??? - A 22.1?

-- Type 1.2 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 3 rivets) - Low= 44/High=212

-- Type 1.3.1 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 4 rivets; SN at 6 o'clock near bottom) - Low = 306/High = 2401

-- Type 1.3.2 (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; 4 rivets; SN directly below screwpost) - Low = 1007/High = 2581

2nd award - Low = 53/High = 56 - A 22.2

3rd award - Low = ??/High = ?? - A 22.3

4th award (МОНЕТНЫЙ ДВОР mintmark; SN at 6 o'clock near bottom; 4 rivets) - Low = 74/High = 150 - A 22.4

ORDER OF THE RED BANNER OF MILITARY VALOUR (1945--)

1st award:

-- Type 1.1 (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost) - Low = 50/High = 2794 - A 23.1

-- Type 1.2 (as above, but with Cyrillic ?B? mintmark) - Low = 1332/High = 1901

-- Type 2.1 (Pinback 3 rivets; SN at 12 o'clock) - Low = 3160/High = 4449 - A 24.1

-- Type 2.2 (Pinback 2 rivets; SN at 5 o'clock) - Low = 4685/High = 5380

-- Type 3.1 (pinback, bronze) - Low = 5512/High = 5607 - A 24.2

-- Type 3.2 (pinback, bronze, unnumbered, escapee?)

2nd award (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 40 awarded?) - Low = 12/High = 398 - A 23.2

3rd award (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 10-15 awarded?) - Low = 5/High = 200 - A 23.3

4th award (Screwback; 3 rivets; SN just below screwpost ? perhaps 4-5 awarded?) - Low = 3/High = 86 - A 23.4

[Megan]

Then I think I already need to go & modify the page I have just uploaded to my site! Which was based on your previous listing in the thread you just recommended, and pictures on Yuri's site (I am not trusting his dates any more...).

What I think I have is: -

Order of Military Valour 1926-31