v.Perlet Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 16 minutes ago, spolei said: The left one is a late Leser 3rd class. The same swords like the 4th class. Hello spolei, how am I to understand this? That an MVO 3KL has different swords then a MVO 4KL? meaning it's own distinctive swords? - thanks Regards v.Perlet Edited February 8, 2022 by v.Perlet
spolei Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 18 minutes ago, v.Perlet said: Hello spolei, how am I to understand this? That an MVO 3KL has different swords then a MVO 4KL? meaning it's own distinctive swords? - thanks Regards v.Perlet The swords on Lew's MVO 3 class with a crown on the left of the buckle have the same swords as the 4th class you introduced Die Schwerter an Lew's MVO 3 Klasse mit Krone links an der Schnalle haben die gleichen Schwerter, wie die von dir vorgestellten 4. Klasse
v.Perlet Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, spolei said: The swords on Lew's MVO 3 class with a crown on the left of the buckle have the same swords as the 4th class you introduced Die Schwerter an Lew's MVO 3 Klasse mit Krone links an der Schnalle haben die gleichen Schwerter, wie die von dir vorgestellten 4. Klasse sorry for the inconvenience, - the MVO 4 KL X, that I have (the flame discussion) - or the one I just posted which I might want to buy? -if the latter applies, yes that is why i asked Iew if his MVO is a JL as well. Thanks and regards v.Perlet Edited February 8, 2022 by v.Perlet
spolei Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) The MVO in your last posting from today. Edited February 8, 2022 by spolei 1
v.Perlet Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 Hello spolei, Here is a photo of my MVK 1KLasse with Swords - the ribbon might be a new one - not sure. Regards v.Perlet
spolei Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 Sorry, but this is one of the Deschler-fakes. This was originally a third class, which was subsequently upgraded to the detriment of the collector.
waldo Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) Yes, this MVK 1. Kl. X is a fake. Ich hoffe, dass Du nicht noch mehr solcher Gurken gekauft hast. Bei ebay Deutschland werden jede Menge solcher Fälschungen angeboten. Edited February 8, 2022 by waldo
v.Perlet Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) wow - that would mean that some people already started to fake these 20 years ago! is the ribbon new or old? Regards v.Perlet Edited February 8, 2022 by v.Perlet
spolei Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 16 minutes ago, v.Perlet said: wow - that would mean that some people already started to fake these 20 years ago! is the ribbon new or old? Regards v.Perlet Counterfeits have been around since the 1980s, this is not a new phenomenon. They were distributed also on a large scale by dealers. Fälschungen gibt es schon seit den 80er Jahren, das ist keine neue Erscheinung. Die wurden im großen Stil auch von Händlern weiterverbreitet.
v.Perlet Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 22 minutes ago, waldo said: Yes, this MVK 1. Kl. X is a fake. Ich hoffe, dass Du nicht noch mehr solcher Gurken gekauft hast. Bei ebay Deutschland werden jede Menge solcher Fälschungen angeboten. ? das will ich doch hoffen! - Gottseidank sind 99% meiner Sammlung von meinem Onkel - ein recht bekannter Sammler aus den 50 und 60 Jahren. I only bought 3 orders (all from evilbay) - one the MVO 4KL that you know, a MVK1X and a MVK2KLmit X+K Gruss Andreas
v.Perlet Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) Hello gents, any idea as to who the maker of this MVK3KL X&K could be? I always wondered about the triangular ribbon set up - for an Austrian soldier? Even though this Bavarian Mountain fellow seems to wear it in the same fashion? And his cap also displays the Bavarian and Austrian mountain badge. Regards v.Perlet Edited February 8, 2022 by v.Perlet
spolei Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 (edited) This is a Weiss MVK. Typical the big swords with big grip. Nice picture, should be a "Leiber". Edited February 8, 2022 by spolei 1
lew Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 7 hours ago, v.Perlet said: Iew is your MVO (left one) also a Leser? I'm not sure, it's not marked, not on the swords and cross, don't know if there is any mark on the ring.
spolei Posted February 8, 2022 Posted February 8, 2022 Here a Leser from the archive of our member Sascha Wöschler. https://woeschler-orden.de/katalog/archiv/bayern-militaer-verdienstorden-2-modell-iii-klasse-mit-der-krone-und-schwertern-2
saschaw Posted February 9, 2022 Posted February 9, 2022 Feel free to use my photos anytime, spolei! I generally don't mind them being "stolen" for educational, non-commercial purposes, and especially here on GMIC. This has been the nicest of two or three of this type that I had so far. All came as singles, and unfortunately without any provenience. 2
v.Perlet Posted February 12, 2022 Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) Hello Deutschritter, now it all makes sense. After you indicated the title "Ritter von Reitzenstein" I finally!!! also realized that his "Coat of Arms" is not that of the Freiherrn von Reitzenstein. Found a far better resolution of his documents and awards BTW his collection that was auctioned of by Hermann Historica 20 years ago was auctioned of by Ratisbon's last year in July. Anyone knows for how much? or what the asking price was? https://www.ratisbons.com/de/43rd-contemporary-history-auction/wilhelm-von-reitzenstein-important-military-order-of-max-joseph-winner-s-grouping.html Thanks for that piece of help - very appreciated Regards v.Perlet Edited February 12, 2022 by v.Perlet
Deutschritter Posted February 12, 2022 Posted February 12, 2022 (edited) Originaltext: Wilhelm Freiherr von Reitzenstein (1865--1935), Militär-Max-Joseph on 25 September 1914, here the "Ritter" made no difference and was not given as a title, because already Freiherr (Erbadel comes before Personaladel). But then we have the later Generalmajor Wilhelm Reitzenstein (1880--1941), Militär-Max-Joseph on 4 June 1915, now "Ritter von Reitzenstein" (Wappeneintrag: 6. Juli 1915). No problem, I would also like to know how much was paid ... what a great collection. He had a daughter, Asta, but no sons, his two grandchildren were Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Wilhelm Siebmanns (1938–2014; Dachau) and Asta Siebmanns (born 20 February 1944; married in Massachusetts with John Wesley Potter 1935–2001). Here are the decorations I have for Wilhelm Rudolf Adolf Hans Ritter von Reitzenstein: Prinzregent-Luitpold-Medaille in Bronze am Bande der Jubiläums-Medaille, 1905 Preußischer Kronenorden, IV. Klasse am 13. November 1906 Eisernes Kreuz (1914), II. und I. Klasse ... II. Klasse am 17. September 1914 Militärverdienstorden (Bayern), IV. Klasse mit Schwertern am 13. November 1914 Militär-Max-Joseph-Orden am 4. Juni 1915 als Hauptmann mit Wirkung vom 25. September 1914 ... dadurch Erhebung in den bayerischen Personaladel; Wappeneintrag: 6. Juli 1915 Krone zum Bayerischen Militärverdienstorden IV. Klasse mit Schwertern am 14. Dezember 1916 Militärverdienstkreuz (Österreich), III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration am 13. März 1917 Königlicher Hausorden von Hohenzollern, Ritterkreuz mit Schwertern am 12. April 1917 Militärverdienstkreuz (Österreich), III. Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration am 7. Mai 1918 (zweite Verleihung, deshalb mit Wiederholungsspange) Militärverdienstkreuz (Mecklenburg), II. Klasse am 11. Mai 1918 Verwundetenabzeichen (1918) in Mattweiß (Silber) Bayerisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz, II. Klasse für 24 Dienstjahre Kriegsdenkmünze 1914/18 des Kyffhäuser-Bundes am 30. April 1929 Deutsches Turn- und Sportabzeichen in Bronze, 1930 Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer am 15. März 1935 Edited February 12, 2022 by Deutschritter 1
LuckySlevin Posted March 8, 2022 Posted March 8, 2022 Hi Gentlemen, Would it be possible to know your opinion on this MVK2XC: Please correct me if I am wrong: Cross and swords are GH. Front Medallion has belt of GH type. The only doubt is the silver gilt from my point of view. There is quite a lot of silver gilt which was lost on the back especially. Could this be a MVK3KXC to which enamel and silver gilt was applied ? Or this is expected loss due to wear? Thank you, Lucky
spolei Posted March 8, 2022 Posted March 8, 2022 The body of the cross was made of non-ferrous metal and, depending on the class, was either copper-plated, silver-plated or gold-plated. In the piece shown, I see an awarded 2nd class crown swords. The reverse may be worn or patinated. Nice bar. Would you show us the hole bar? regards Andreas
v.Perlet Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Hello LuckySlevin, I got no idea as to what the seller is asking for - but for me personally I wouldn't purchase it. The ribbons (aside maybe the Bavaria Service ribbon) look like from yesterday, and the MVK 2nd Class seems to be in a bad shape/condition. The bar in its medal composition is actually very common. see Photo of a bar in my collection. Regards v.Perlet Edited March 18, 2022 by v.Perlet
waldo Posted March 18, 2022 Posted March 18, 2022 (edited) Is looks good to me. I would buy them if I were looking for a medalbar like that. Edited March 19, 2022 by waldo 1
waldo Posted March 25, 2022 Posted March 25, 2022 (edited) Bad pictures. ? Hemmerle actually made this class. But to be able to judge it exactly, one would have to have better pictures. The front medallion must be made of gold in several parts. greetings from Bavaria Walter Edited March 25, 2022 by waldo
scottplen Posted March 26, 2022 Posted March 26, 2022 Best I can get if the center medallion from seller .
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