Char. Admiral Gustav Schmidt - Medal bar ID

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

Please help me ID/confirm the awards on his medal bar:

 

- Königlich Preußische Rettungsmedaille am Bande

- Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz

- Königlich Preußische Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870–71 für Kämpfer (not sure)

- China-Denkmünze (Bronze or Stahl?) OR Kolonial-Denkmünze ???

- Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897

- something hidden beneath the Centenarmedaille and the last medal ???

- ???

 

Here is the list of his awards I compiled:

-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden I. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub, Krone und mit dem Stern (19. 01. 1908)
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden II. Klasse mit dem Stern (17. 01. 1904)
-Königlich Preußische Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870–71 für Kämpfer
-Königlich Preußische Kaiser Wilhelm-Centenarmedaille 1897
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden III. Klasse mit Schleife und mit der Krone
-Königlich Preußischer Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse
-Königlich Preußischer Kronen-Orden III. Klasse
-Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz
-Königlich Preußische Rettungsmedaille am Bande
-Kommandeurkreuz II. Klasse des Herzoglich Braunschweigischen Ordens Heinrichs des Löwen
-Großkreuz des Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischen Greifenordens
-Komturkreuz des Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischen Greifenordens
-Ehrenkomturkreuz des Großherzoglich Oldenburgischen Haus- und Verdienstordens des Herzogs Peter Friedrich Ludwig
-Kommandeurkreuz des Kaiserlichen Japanischen Ordens von der Aufgehenden Sonne
-Kommandeurkreuz des Königlich Italienischen Ordens vom Heiligen Mauritius- und Lazarus
-Großoffizierskreuz des Königlich Niederländischen Ordens von Oranien-Nassau mit Schwertern
-Kommandeurkreuz I. Klasse des Königlich Norwegischen Ordens des heiligen Olaf
-Kaiserlich Russischer St. Stanislaus-Orden II. Klasse mit dem Stern
-Kommandeurkreuz I. Klasse des Königlich Schwedischen Schwertordens
 

Thanks!

[JohanH]

He got the Swedish Order of the Sword on August 3rd 1905

[VtwinVince]

Looks like an English Diamond Jubilee Medal covering the St. Stanislaus.

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

4 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

Looks like an English Diamond Jubilee Medal covering the St. Stanislaus.

Would that be the Queen Victoria Diamond Jubilee Medal from 1897? In 1897 Schmidt was Commandant of the Panzerschiff "König Wilhelm". And on Wikipedia it says: "On 26 June [1897], she ["König Wilhelm"] represented Germany at the Fleet Review for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee." It would make sense he was awarded the medal then.

Regarding the St. Stanislaus. How do you know that the second to last medal (covered by the Jubilee Medal) is the St. Stanislaus? And what class would be worn on the medal bar, 3rd? This doesn't make sense, because on the full photo you can see he is wearing the Breast Star of the St. Stanislaus 2nd Class he was awarded (which is confirmed by the Rangliste).

[GdC26]

12 hours ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

 

Regarding the St. Stanislaus. How do you know that the second to last medal (covered by the Jubilee Medal) is the St. Stanislaus? And what class would be worn on the medal bar, 3rd? This doesn't make sense, because on the full photo you can see he is wearing the Breast Star of the St. Stanislaus 2nd Class he was awarded (which is confirmed by the Rangliste).

Karlo, 

Vince can no doubt speak for himself, but I agree the order looks like the St. Stanislaus. Moreover, whilst I think there is a first class star of the order, I'm not sure there is in fact a second class star. See: https://antique-photos.com/en/awardsdatabase/russian-empire/424-orden-svyatogo-stanislava.html 

    Kind regards,

    Sandro 

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

3 hours ago, GdC26 said:

Vince can no doubt speak for himself, but I agree the order looks like the St. Stanislaus. Moreover, whilst I think there is a first class star of the order, I'm not sure there is in fact a second class star. See: https://antique-photos.com/en/awardsdatabase/russian-empire/424-orden-svyatogo-stanislava.html

Hello Sandro,

I'm quite sure there was a Breast Star of the 2nd Class. The 2nd Class could have been awarded with or without the Star. The Rangliste do make this distinction.

Below is Gustav Schmidt's entry in the 1909 Rangliste. You can clearly see the "RSt2" has the addition "mSt" (mit dem Stern). That's why it's odd he would wear the 3rd? Class on his medal bar and also the Breast Star of the 2nd Class. I can find no indication he was awarded the 3rd Class of the St. Stanislaus. Only the 2nd Class in 1892 with the addition of the Star in 1897.

Regards,

Karlo

[GdC26]

2 hours ago, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

Hello Sandro,

I'm quite sure there was a Breast Star of the 2nd Class. The 2nd Class could have been awarded with or without the Star. The Rangliste do make this distinction.

Below is Gustav Schmidt's entry in the 1909 Rangliste. You can clearly see the "RSt2" has the addition "mSt" (mit dem Stern). That's why it's odd he would wear the 3rd? Class on his medal bar and also the Breast Star of the 2nd Class. I can find no indication he was awarded the 3rd Class of the St. Stanislaus. Only the 2nd Class in 1892 with the addition of the Star in 1897.

Regards,

Karlo

Fair enough, Karlo.

Problem is that the hidden decoration strongly resembles the St. Stanislaus, and that there are not many orders that look like that. Moreover, mostfo his foreign decorations look to have bene Komtur grade or higher. In the pic Schmidt looks to hold Vizeadmiral rank. When did he achieve that rank, when was he awarded the RSt2mSt and did he have a third class of the order at any time after his appointment as Vizeadmiral?

Regards, 

Sandro

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

1 hour ago, GdC26 said:

When did he achieve that rank, when was he awarded the RSt2mSt and did he have a third class of the order at any time after his appointment as Vizeadmiral?

He was promoted to Vizeadmiral on 13 September 1906.

He was awarded the RSt2 on 17 October 1892 while he was a Korvettenkapitän.

He was awarded the Stern to his RSt2 on 24 September 1897 while he was a Kapitän zur See.

I couldn't find anything on him being awarded the St. Stanislaus 3rd Class.

The only 3 awards he was awarded after he was promoted to Vizeadmiral were the RAO2mEKruSt, KO1 and GkMG.

[VtwinVince]

OK, so the Jubilee Medal is a match. I think he's wearing the St. Stanislaus on a bar which has yet to be 'updated' by his orders tailor.

[GdC26]

1 hour ago, VtwinVince said:

OK, so the Jubilee Medal is a match. I think he's wearing the St. Stanislaus on a bar which has yet to be 'updated' by his orders tailor.

From the pic that seems to be the case, but there is a very big gap between 1892, when he received 2nd class, and 1906 when he became Vizeadmiral. And the 2nd class is an award worn at the neck.

That said, eMedals gives 41 x 39 mm for a third class cross and  48 x 52 mm for a commanders cross. Wiki gives 30 mm for the Diamond Jubilee medal partially covering the alleged St. Stanislaus, and the Zentenarmedaille on the left side of it measures 40 mm. The order believed to be a St. Stanislaus is definitely substantially larger than both of these medals, so given relative sizes it seems possible that Schmidt wore the St. Stanislaus second class cross on his bar, rather than at the neck.

Kind regards, 

Sandro

Edited November 11, 2020 by GdC26

[Komtur]

39 minutes ago, GdC26 said:

... possible that Schmidt wore the St. Stanislaus second class cross on his bar, rather than at the neck. ...

Bingo!

Very strange! I´ve never seen that before ...

[GdC26]

16 minutes ago, Komtur said:

Bingo!

Very strange! I´ve never seen that before ...

?

[Komtur]

Could you please show us this extraordinary portrait in high resolution without the red ring marking the St.Stanislaus star?

Thanks in advance,

Komtur.

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

9 hours ago, Komtur said:

Could you please show us this extraordinary portrait in high resolution without the red ring marking the St.Stanislaus star?

Thanks in advance,

Komtur.

 

[Kriegsmarine Admiral]

Thank you guys for all the help!

This is the first time I saw an officer wearing a neck decoration on his medal bar. Was this common? Because I thought that was against the regulations?

Anyway, there is one more medal from his medal bar that needs to be ID'd. This would be the 4th medal (in between the Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870–71 für Kämpfer (I believe?) and the Centenarmedaille). I'm pretty sure it's one of the Colonial medals. Do you have any ideas? Possibly the China or Kolonial Denkmünze? And what class is it if it's the China Denkmünze? The color of the medal suggests Bronze, but during the Boxer Rebellion he was first Chief of Staff of the Naval Station of the North Sea (01 October 1897-25 September 1900) and then Executive of the Nautical Department, Imperial Naval Office (26 September 1900-03 February 1903). So I would guess Stahl (Steel) for non-combatants?

[1812 Overture]

Thank you very much, I just need this photo

[Deutschritter]

On 12/11/2020 at 14:00, Kriegsmarine Admiral said:

Possibly the China or Kolonial Denkmünze? 

 

 

You probably already have this, but Deutscher Ordens-Almanach confirms Chinadenkmünze. 

[Deutschritter]

Did I get everything right? Thanks!

 

26 April 1868 Cadett (Officer Candidate)

15 July 1869 Seecadett (Officer Cadet)

20 June 1872 Unterlieutenant zur See (2nd Lieutenant)

18 November 1875 Lieutenant zur See (1st Lieutenant)

16 April 1881 Kapitänlieutenant (Lieutenant Captain)

19 February 1889 Korvettenkapitän (Corvette Captain – Lieutenant Commander)

29 October 1894 Kapitän zur See (Captain at Sea – Captain)

30 March 1902 Kontre-Admiral (Rear Admiral)

13 September 1906 Vizeadmiral (Vice Admiral)

12 July 1909 Charakter als Admiral (Honorary Admiral)

 

War Commemorative Medal of 1870–1871 (Kaiserliche Kriegsdenkmünze 1870/71; KD70/71)

Prussian Lifesaving Medal on Ribbon (Rettungsmedaille am Band)

Prussian Long Service Cross (Königlich Preußisches Dienstauszeichnungskreuz) for 25 years

Red Eagle Order (Roter Adlerorden), 4th Class

Prussian Order of the Crown (Kronenorden), 3rd Class

Imperial Russian Sankt-Stanislaus-Orden, 2nd Class (RSt2)

Red Eagle Order, 3rd Class with the Bow (mit der Schleife)

Order of Henry the Lion (Herzoglich Braunschweigischer Orden Heinrichs des Löwen), Commander's Cross 2nd Class (BrHL2b/BrH2b)

Japanese Order of the Rising Sun, 3rd Class (JVAS3/JV3)

Italian Order of Saints Maurice and Lazarus, Commander (JMuL3/JM3)

Royal Norwegian Order of Saint Olav, Commander II. Class (NO2b)

Mecklenburg Order of the Griffon (Großherzoglich Mecklenburgischer Greifenorden), Commander's Cross (MGrO2b/MG2b)

Royal Norwegian Order of Saint Olav, Commander I. Class [with Star] (NO2a)

Prussian Centenary Medal 1897 (Zentenarmedaille) on 22 March 1897

Crown to his Red Eagle Order 3rd Class with the Bow

Star to his Imperial Russian Sankt-Stanislaus-Orden 2nd Class (RSt2mSt)

Queen Victoria Diamond Jubilee Medal in Silver (GJMs/BrtJM2)

... The Diamond Jubilee of Queen Victoria was officially celebrated on 22 June 1897 to mark the occasion of the 60th anniversary of Queen Victoria's accession on 20 June 1837. Schmidt was commandant of the former armored frigate and now large armored cruiser SMS "König Wilhelm". The cruiser (Großer Kreuzer I. Klasse) represented the German Empire at the Fleet Review on 26 June 1897 for Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee.

Prussian Order of the Crown, 2nd Class

House and Merit Order of Peter Frederick Louis, Ehren-Komturkreuz or Honorary Commanders Cross (OV2b)

China Commemorative Medal (China-Denkmünze) in Steel for non-combatants

Red Eagle Order, 2nd Class with Oak Leaves

Star to his Prussian Order of the Crown 2nd Class on 17 January 1904

Order of Orange-Nassau, Grand Officer (NN2)

Crown to his Red Eagle Order 2nd Class with Oak Leaves

Swedish Order of the Sword, Commander 1st Class (SS2a) on 3 August 1905

Star to his Red Eagle Order 2nd Class with Oak Leaves and the Crown on 19 January 1908

Prussian Order of the Crown, 1st Class