Double Lippe Ordensspange

[Alan]

I thought I would share this Ordensspange.

 

When I bought it, the second space was empty and I have since  added a nice Wagner HOH Knight‘s Cross.

 

Not researchable I fear, but a great colourful bar none the less.

Edited February 17, 2022 by Alan

[David M]

Theoretically, how many possible recipients could there be? Just wondering 

[Alan]

1 hour ago, David M said:

Theoretically, how many possible recipients could there be? Just wondering 

 

My thought is that this combination doesn‘t have anything unusual or rare about it. Hopefully I‘m wrong about that, maybe there is a pic with it in wear somewhere.

[scottplen]

Great bar !

[laurentius]

8 hours ago, Alan said:

My thought is that this combination doesn‘t have anything unusual or rare about it. Hopefully I‘m wrong about that, maybe there is a pic with it in wear somewhere.

I'm glad to say you are wrong, because this bar is a rare little bird. When it comes to Lippe there were two states: Lippe-Detmold and Schaumburg-Lippe. Due to a succession crisis in the 1890's which required the 'guiding' hand of Emperor Wilhelm II there was still some animosity at the start of WW1. This is the reason why cross-Lippe awardings and recipients with decorations from both states are rare. 

 

I can't guarantee an identification, but I believe it is worth a try. Won't be many people with this combo and you could cross of those with additional decorations that do not show up on the bar.

 

Kind regards, Laurentius

[VtwinVince]

I agree, it's an unusual combo, I would guess to a Hauptmann or Major. Daniel, where are you?

[Daniel Krause]

Here ?

 

very nice bar!

congrats!

indeed a quite unusual Combo and indeed most likely a Major.

active guy, sure a Captain in 1914, WW1 Major,  maybe retired Lt Col.

 

we are still short of good info on Lippe-Detmold recipients, but sooner or later I am sure, this bar gets a Name back.

 

best,

Daniel

[Alan]

2 hours ago, laurentius said:

I'm glad to say you are wrong, because this bar is a rare little bird. When it comes to Lippe there were two states: Lippe-Detmold and Schaumburg-Lippe. Due to a succession crisis in the 1890's which required the 'guiding' hand of Emperor Wilhelm II there was still some animosity at the start of WW1. This is the reason why cross-Lippe awardings and recipients with decorations from both states are rare. 

 

I can't guarantee an identification, but I believe it is worth a try. Won't be many people with this combo and you could cross of those with additional decorations that do not show up on the bar.

 

Kind regards, Laurentius

 

Well this is good news, thankyou Laurentius.

 

2 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

I agree, it's an unusual combo, I would guess to a Hauptmann or Major. Daniel, where are you?

 

1 hour ago, Daniel Krause said:

Here ?

 

very nice bar!

congrats!

indeed a quite unusual Combo and indeed most likely a Major.

active guy, sure a Captain in 1914, WW1 Major,  maybe retired Lt Col.

 

we are still short of good info on Lippe-Detmold recipients, but sooner or later I am sure, this bar gets a Name back.

 

best,

Daniel

 

Thankyou Vince and Daniel. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by Alan

[Dave Danner]

The LK/SLK combination is not that uncommon. I know of at least 140 officer recipients of both crosses, and I have only gotten through about 40% of the LK recipients. 

 

That said, most can be ruled out for various reasons. Several were Austro-Hungarian officers, for example. Most were too junior in rank to have the combination on the bar (too young for the Centenary and not enough service for the DA), and many were too senior (they had the Red Eagle as well as other awards). Others can be ruled out because they had other known awards.

 

Right now, the closest possible match is Werner Hildebrandt from IR 98. As of April 1918, he had the EK1, Cent, LK and SLK. He had enought service to get the DA after the war. If he is the Hauptmann Hildebrandt whose HOH3X was gazetted in late 1918, the combination would be a match. I cannot say for certain, though. And, since there are many as yet unknown LK-recipients, other candidates might appear.

 

[Claudius]

That is a great little bar!  I luv the white backing.

[Alan]

6 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

 

Right now, the closest possible match is Werner Hildebrandt from IR 98. As of April 1918, he had the EK1, Cent, LK and SLK. He had enought service to get the DA after the war. If he is the Hauptmann Hildebrandt whose HOH3X was gazetted in late 1918, the combination would be a match. I cannot say for certain, though. And, since there are many as yet unknown LK-recipients, other candidates might appear.

 

 

Wow Dave, thank you for all your efforts, totally unexpected result so far.

 

Looking forward to see what comes out next.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Alan

[Dave Danner]

Daniel or Glenn might have a more definitive answer, but I believe DA awards were made through about 1920. Other Prussian awards continued after the war included the Iron Cross and the Verdienstkreuz für Kriegshilfe (and maybe the Red Cross Decoration?). I think 1920 was also the cut-off here. State awards of the knighly orders stopped in 1918, although unofficial awards of house orders like the House Order of Hohenzollern are still made to this day (albeit not with swords).

 

The practice varied in other states. Anhalt and Schwarzburg stopped with the end of the war and the abdication of their monarchs. Bavaria stopped processing war awards around 1919-20. Mecklenburg-Schwerin continued processing war awards until around 1924.

 

Also, your logic was the same as mine regarding how to double-count, but we are wrong. The war only lasted 4 years and 3 months, but an officer who served the entire war was credited with 10 years' service, not eight. 1914 was a "war year", so it counted double, as did each of the years from 1915 to 1918.