Chuck In Oregon

This is from the collection of the artist I mentioned in The Lounge. If there is a better forum for recruiting posters, I invite you to move it there. When he took this in to be framed the frame shop mis-understood and dry-mounted it instead. What a shame, but it still looks pretty good.

I just got back last night from a month in Tbilisi. Things there are pretty tense these days and, as always, pretty screwed up, but this isn't the place for that conversation. Among the new treasures I brought home was the Avers-8 that I paid for last May. It had to come down from Moscow for me to pick up in Georgia on my then-next visit. It wasn't yet available when I was in Moscow in Oct. 2007. I paid $300 for it back in May and a friend brought it to Tbilisi for me as a favor during my absence. I hear they're going for around $250 now so if you waited you saved some money IF you can still find one. I also heard that they are no longer generally available. That is certainly a high price for a badge book but this is one heck of a badge book. It purports to be both a catalog and valuation of Soviet badges from 1917-1980 although it includes some late-era badges as well. It is BIG book, full-size, hard-bound and 736 numbered pages, It is very nicely made, good cover (although it is so big that the binding needed to be even stronger than it is), high-quality glossy paper, great photos. It has some illustrations where original examples could not be produced. They are helpful and there aren't too many for my taste. It includes 3,793 numbered photos and illustrations and many additional un-numbered photos and illustrations in support of the topics at hand. This includes gramotas and photos of people wearing the badges shown in that particular section. I really like that touch. There are excellent photos of reverses and screwplates as well but some of us might have wanted even more of those. The book also has some excellent supporting data and information that goes beyond just dates of manufacture, but even those are very helpful. The book includes hat badges as well, which I like. I have, for instance, an NKVD gulag guard's hat badge which I hadn't seen depicted elsewhere, raising my doubts as to its authenticity. This book has a great photo of one (item 1855a.) that confirms it is what I thought it is. Nice. I would have liked more badges from the republics. That would have added a lot but it was probably just too much to include in a book already this big. I know there is a comprehensive book out there somewhere but I've only seen one once and it wasn't for sale. As for values, I just don't know. Earlier Avers catalogs were said to have listed notoriously low-ball prices. These prices don't seem to me to be way out of line, with this caveat: My guess is that this book, dated only "Moscow 2008" went to print in late 2007 or so. Prices were high and climbing then and this book may have bet a little bit on a continued rise in prices. Like everyone else, they didn't foresee an economic downturn or a general flattening or pullback in the prices of Soviet collectibles. The prices in this book may actually tend toward the high side as opposed to many observations of previous Avers editions. That's about it for the book. If anyone has any questions I'll try my best to answer them for you. Once I get my latest purchases cataloged I'll share some of them here as well. You're going to like them, I'm sure. Chuck

The crossed swords over the shield suggest state security to me. The shield isn't the traditional Soviet design, of course, but I've seen other early Transcaucasus state security badges with regional shield designs instead of the one we usually think of. Just a thought. If it's a conversion, do you know what the original looked like? Is there an example somewhere? Back in the day it was common to produce local awards that didn't fit into any general guidelines. Nice badge, though. Thanks for sharing it. Chuck

I think those badges commemorate a jubilee of Lenin's death. I have 1-2 back home. I'm in Tbilisi for another week so I can't check. I've never seen a photo of one being worn, much less three, and on a uniform no less. I also didn't know they were worn on a cloth backing. Edit: No, 20-Year Jubilee of the Revolution. That is a way strange photo. I don't know what to make of it. I think I'll reserve my right of skepticism. Chuck

Hey Doc I'm in Tbilisi right now with my good friend and historian Boria. He says your guy is Russian gendarmes, police cavalry command, post-1907. If you can post a closer scan, he'll try to ID shoulder straps and details for you if he can. Chuck

I think this is a WW I Russian soldier in field uniform M1907-1909, no shoulder boards. Chuck

I'll take a guess. On the right, a private of #13 Pioneer Bn. in WW I field uniform. On the left, a private of #9 Pioneer Bn. also WW I era. He's wearing a custom-tailored uniform, though, including privately-made officer-style shoulder boards. He's flaunting the uniform regs but by then, not many really cared, I imagine. He was stylin'. Nice pix. Thank you for sharing them. Chuck

Very interesting photo. Do you suppose he is Osoaviakhim cadre? Thanks for sharing this one. Chuck

Out west here we might think of those two as pimp guns or garter guns or gamblers' specials, especially that folding-trigger hideaway. No disrespect meant to pimps or gamblers, of course. Chuck

* * * * * * * * * * Great topic. Yes, I would like to see what else you have and to read anything anyone has to say about these. Somewhere around here I have 1-2 badge prototypes from the estate of the one-time quartermaster-general (equivalent, I suppose) of the Georgian SSR. No design drawings, though. Chuck

Who knew? I've never seen one either. I have a box of 100 or more unsorted veterans' badges. I just went through them to see if I might have one of these hiding in there. Nope, nary a one. Thanks for the lesson seb16trs. Chuck

Thanks, Ed. I've acquired (paid for) some good things since my visit in May. It's time to bring them home. In addition to the hardware I'll have a bunch of new photos. I'll also be bringing back at least a dozen Ste. Evgenia Society postcards. I am particularly attracted to those lovely cards and my friend located a small group of them for me, more than doubling my own collection of them. Chuck

* * * * * * * * * * You're sure right about that. I don't have much new to share right now but I'll be in Tbilisi Jan.17 - Feb. 14. I'll be bringing back some pretty interesting things and I'll certainly share them here. Great photo, slava. Chuck

That's a terrific group. Thanks for sharing it with us. I'm going to show it to an Afghan War vet friend in Tbilisi next month. I know he'll be interested. Clearing IEDs is not for the faint of heart. As always, fine soldiers can and do bravely serve lesser masters. Chuck

Must have been 2005 or so. A friend in Tbilisi told me that one of his friends wanted to meet me. Well, fine, and we met. Very nice guy, jolly fellow and all and we got along famously. After an hour or so he (my now new friend) asked me to join him and his family for supper. Large supper setting in the Tbilisi Marriott, big family, much toasting and chatting. I learn that my new friend is from Baku and he's a retired police officer. "Oh, really?", I ask. "What did you do?" "I was a chief", he says. "How very interesting" or words to that effect, I say in my halting Russian as he speaks no English. "Chief of what?", I ask. "The nation." Turns out that he was the just-retired chief of the Azeri MVD and an uncle of the then-new president. Asked me to come visit and stay in "the palace". Tempting, as I have never stayed in a palace before. A Holiday Inn Express, yes, but never a palace. Unfortunately I never got the chance but I suppose the door is still open. I may be going back to Tbilisi next month for a few weeks work. I'll see what's going on with all my friends then. Off topic maybe, but your thread reminded me of the story. Chuck

* * * * * My perspective is limited and personal, but that's not the way I remember it in the 1Cav in 1970-71. Quite the opposite, even allowing for some gaming of the system. I would be reluctant to accept that generalization (and the accompanying rolling eyes) without substantiation. It demeans and cheapens the efforts of a lot of good men. Chuck

Sadly, memory does not serve as well as once it did. I recall only two classifications of flight hours. That memory is suspect, however, as I'm sure I wasn't paying attention at the time and I haven't thought of it in the intervening 37 years since. I gladly acknowledge that there may have been three. Heck, there may have been fifty for all that I remember. I further seem to recall that one type, "CA" I suppose it was from this thread, was preferable to the other but I have no recollection why. Likely in furtherance of medal qualification but I simply don't know for sure. What I do seem to recall is that it didn't matter to us because all of our hours were being logged as those (CA?) hours. Can I support that? No, it's just the way I remember it but that memory is clear enough for my purposes. As to the "shabby administrative work", I can attest that it was simply horrible. I remember leaving, thinking that I had earned X of this one and at least one of that one and so on. Nope. What finally caught up with me was unrecognizable as being connected to anything that I had done, almost as if there were no records of me being there at all until someone made them up. A couple of decades later, for a purpose unrelated to this topic, I tried to check my records to find out why the discrepancies. I always wondered if it was because the 1st Cav had "gone home" to Texas by then, leaving those of us in the 3rd Bde. still there with darn little support. If things happened in 3rd Bde. but somehow needed to be ratified/certified/approved/whatever back in Ft. Hood, then I can see where the chances of it being done right were nil. A year after my inquiry I received a duplicate set of what my DD-214 said I had earned. I hadn't asked for that or anything similar, I just wanted to see what they based my awards on and, if possible, set the record straight and, I have to admit, finally get whatever sparkly trinkets I had earned. It was purely selfish but nevertheless it's what I did. That experience cured me of ever wanting to set a military record straight, more fool I. 136 Air Medals was possible. In the early hottest war years 1,000 hours was common and 1,400 not unheard of. RW aviators were the only MOS subject to three involuntary tours so 3,000+ hours was possible. More than three tours, well, that was your own darn fault. I knew a few guys with 4+ tours but I don't remember any RW aviators, although I'm sure there were some. It was a dying business, that's for sure. I knew a grunt CSM with seven infantry tours, no PX duty for him. You can find his name in the very first pages of the book Hamburger Hill. He was my all-time hero. FWIW, it has been my pleasure and privilege to occasionally correspond with W. McSwiggan. He saw the elephant and is deserving of respect. He's got a good mind for the details too, and I either agree with or learned something new from everything he has written in this thread. I'm sure glad there are guys like him. Chuck

I stand corrected. I've begun to suspect that Pravda does not always get its facts straight. Could it be? Nah.

* * * * * Thanks, Kev. I should have known that. I've got an album of Soviet first day covers around here somewhere. Wonder where I put that thing. So what is a commemorative plate? Or did I just make that term up? I've got an album+ of those too, but that may not be what they're actually called. Ulsterman, those are the two I recognized too. I've got an unpublished 1963 photo of Giap in Tbilisi. I think I once shared it here. I was a senior in high school at the time and he was there trying to figure out how to kill me. The booger.

Very nice find, CZ. I've never seen one of these outside of a book. Chuck

I'm sure I'm not a stamp collector because I don't know what to call things like this. A commemorative plate, maybe? But, and this will stun some of you, I have a TON of stamps that I have picked up here and there and don't have a clue about. It's probably good that we don't have a stamps forum. But I digress. I was thumbing through some flea market things last year in Yerevan and I came across this plate. I'm gonna call it a plate but just out of ignorance. Feel free to correct me. I was pretty surprised at first. The "other side" commemorating their victories? On stamps? Well why not, I suppose. So here it is. You'll recognize some of the luminaries pictured on it. The plan of attack is self-explanatory. Any chance that anyone here knows (or is?) a Dien Bien Phu survivor? If yes, I'd like to hear their story.

Your jeton is item 70 in the paperback reference Russian Medical Breast Badges. The jeton was established September 25, 1905, by the Petersburg Women?s Committee to recognize donors to Marie Pavlovna?s medical clinics (or, possibly, aid stations). Men wore them as a watch fob (or, I suspect, as a stand-alone jeton given the popularity of jetons) and women, on a bracelet or brooch (or, I again suppose, as an ordinary jeton). There were three levels: Silver, for donating at least 10 rubles or for significant personal labor on behalf of the society; Gold, for donating at least 100 rubles (at one time) or for recruiting 12 10-ruble donors; and gold with diamonds. I acknowledge that my translation of Барачной Лечебчицы as medical clinics is approximate and really a guess but it?s the best I can do. It is literally something like medical attention huts or something like that. Since the year 1905 is so significant in regards to the Japanese War catastrophe, it may be (although I have no knowledge of this) that this effort was in aid of wounded war veterans. If that is the case, then "aid stations" rather than medical clinics would make more sense. As always, corrections and improvements are welcome. Like many donor badges, yours is engraved with the name of the donor and the year of the donation. I have a modest collection of Imperial medical badges and jetons and I have never come across an example of yours. NICE find, even with less-than-perfect enamel. Please let me know if you are considering trading or selling it. Chuck

Or, you could just let your imagination guide you and draw your own from scratch. A Georgian friend gave me a large collection of his sketches. I'm in the process of scanning them onto a website. That is a giant PITA, in case anyone is wondering. The results are satisfying, though. So, anyone recognize this guy? The guy in the sketch, not the Georgian. Chuck

Maybe, a "State Automobile Inspection/(Inspectorate?)" badge. With no number after the dash, perhaps unissued. As to authenticity, I haven't seen one posted previously but who knows? GAI badges are pretty well known. If authentic, it should have some appeal for police badge collectors. Chuck