Schießplatzmeister

Hello folks: Thanks to Dave Danner and Google Book Search! I found Geneological information for my fellow. The "Neues Allgemeines Deutsches Adels-Lexicon, Band I" (1859) lists "Freih. Thilo, geb. 1821, herz. sachsen-altenb. Premieurlieutenant". This is undoubtedly the fellow in the photograph (CDV). It is interesting that he is listed as "Thilo", as his signature looks like "Tilo". Take a look at Dave Danner's links to Google Book Search. The is a wealth of information available! I will be able to research a great many items that have been laying around. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Andy: Congratulations on acquiring this nice original grouping of items. I see no problems with any of it. I do not know the exact criteria for the "Kriegsverein Kreuz". My assumption is that just about any veteran who could prove that they were in the service in WWI could apply for one of these, pay the required fee, and be granted membership. There were a great number of these types of "awards" after WWI. Some veterans had groups that only had these types of items, while others did not bother to apply for the unofficial veteran's society pieces. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Jacky: Squinting to see, it looks like a Hohenlohe House and Knight's Order of the Phoenix! Interesting?????? Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Rod: Congratulations regarding your acquisitions! No shamrocks here! These are Rue leaves. You will find them on a few Saxon Orders. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Laurence: Is there anyone (the museum?) who has access to the original telex in German? If so, could it be posted? Where did the "translated" information come from? If the original German text can't be found, then the AWARD portion of the story is unfounded (I will have to side with Rick on this one). This of course in no way detracts from the significance of the brave deed performed by Cochrane. The fact that he received ANY recognition at all from the government of his enemy as a POW is extraordinary. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Laurence: A rather amazing story. The era of these gentlemen soldiers was a fascinating one to be sure. One interesting thing to note is that the award shown is a Bavarian Military Merit Order, Merit Cross 3rd class with crown and swords! This was an award that usually went to higher ranking NCO's. The Bavarians certainly thought a lot of Cochrane and his brave deed to grant him this award. It must have had to have been authorized by none other than the King himself. I'm sure that a great many Bavarian soldiers must have been a bit envious of Cochrane's award. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Motorhead: No worries here! It looks like a very nice piece with a cast iron wreath and a silver-plated "kriegsmetal" center. I love these badges. A soldier had to be in the "thick of it" to get one of these. These really were the Hessian equivalent of the EKI. Best regards, "SPM"

I found this old thing laying about! "SPM"

Hello Brian: Well, the good news is that they are all genuine pieces of period manufacture. The "bad" news is that none of them are official awards by a German State. The first piece is an "Ehrenlegion" (Honor Legion) medal and is a post WWI veteran's organization piece, but is sometimes found in mounted groups. The second piece is a commemorative medal of the German 9th Army Corps (also a post-WWI veteran's organization piece sometimes found in mounted groups). The third piece looks like a Prussian IR 8 commemorative medal. The others appear to be lesser-quality veteran's organization pieces. The ribbons for all as noted are probably not correct. Don't pay a lot for these as they are not uncommon. They are however interesting collectibles. Good luck with your possible acquisitions! "SPM"

Les: Congratulations, an excellent analysis of this piece! Your mention of Cejalvo brings back a memory of passing by their shop window in Madrid about ten years ago. I marvelled at the superb quality of the pieces that they had displayed. It is frightening to think of what they can make! I seem to recall an excellent Maria Theresa Order badge in gold in the window. Unfortunately, they were closed for the afternoon "siesta" when I was there and I never got to return. I hate to frighten everyone, but Cejalvo is not the only jeweler that can make items of this quality. I have seen top-notch RAO copies in gold that have shown-up in Europe within the last few years. This hobby is getting more dangerous all of the time! Caveat emptor! "SPM"

A bit closer. Note the differences in the sword hilt designs.

Hello all: Sorry for the poor quality of the image, but you get the idea. Best regards, "SPM"

Hello everyone: Interesting,...I think that the "fuzzy" photographs probably make this collar look better (like the technique that magazines use for models "past their prime"). The Horse-blanket star actually looks like it might (????) be genuine. This would be a lot to pay for such an item however! I find the "945" silver content mark fascinating . It must be better than 938! Isn't a higher number always better? Best regards, "SPM"

Thanks Glenn and Ulsterman! So, our best bet for our fine whiskered fellow is: Major a.D. Joachim Friedrich Ottomar Freiherr v. Beust, 7 Oct 1810 - 19 Sep 1886, former Ducal Saxon-Altenburg Major This would make sense. Thanks for everyone's input! Best regards, "SPM"

Dave, Ulsterman, and Glenn: Thank you very much for your research and all of the very useful imformation. So, if I understand correctly, this is Generallieutenant Friedrich Hermann Graf von Beust pre-1866. He certainly had on heck of a career; acquired a lot of hardware, a super job, and an elevation from Freiherr to Graf! Wow, I wonder if he actually did something important in the 1863, 1866, and 1870 campaigns, or if his being born into the right social status did more to help him along. I'm sure that it was probably a combination of both! Fascinating! Thanks to all of you for your help. You have made this small photo very dear to me. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Dave: Thank you for the information! Best regards, "SPM"

Hello Rick, Dave, and Glenn: Thank you for your patience and your assistance. I have finally figured out how to utilize my new scanner (yes, I know, I should have purchased an Epson!). This fellow is from Sachsen-Altenburg (NOT Sachsen-Anhalt) as I earlier wrote. The residence (actual home) of this fellow was called "Schlo? Moderwitz" as far as I can tell, as a Google search revealled a story of an American relative travelling to visit him there in the late 1800's. Many v. Beust's show up as receiving Saxson awards, so the quest is not going to be easy. Glenn, a good tip regarding the name as "Tilo" may have been a moniker. I believe that this fellow was possibly an Officer in a unit from Sachsen-Altenburg (Altenburg is where the photo was taken), so perhaps the 8. Th?ringisches Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 153. You are right Dave, this unit would be in the Prussian rank list. Glenn may have already found our friend. I would be curious to know if anyone has 1860-1880 Prussian rank lists and could find him. I believe that I am correct regarding the fellow having a SEHO and Anhalt Order of Albert the Bear award. The others are very difficult to see as the CDV is very small. It would be nice to confirm who he was and what awards he received through a rank list entry. I also think that I can perhaps see swords on the SEHO badge?? Best regards, "SPM"

#&*&@&@#***#! Unexperienced fools and HP scanners DO NOT mix. I hope that all of you passed the vision test! As soon as I read the instruction manual for this thing, I will hopefully figure out what to do. Look for improved large-scale scans in about six (6) months. With my appologies, "SPM"

And the reverse.

Here is a closer shot of the bar.

Hello all: This CDV is of Tilo Freiherr von Beust who was from a large family of socially important v. Beust's from Sachsen-Altenburg. I believe that he resided at a place called Schlo? Moderwitz. It appears as though he is wearing a six (6) place medal bar. Here are my guesses as to what it consists of: 1) SEHO knight (1st?) 2) ? 3) ? 4) Oldenburg PFLHO? (knight 1st or 2nd?) 5) Anhalt OAB 6) ? I don't have any Saxon rank lists that go back to this era (1875-1890?). Perhaps Rick (the all-knowing, ever merciful, ....) or someone else can help me figure out what this fellows awards consisted of. Thanks! "SPM"

Hello Medalnet: Nice medal bar! "SPM"

Hello Tony: I hope that all is well in the "sandbox". Hopefully, the rain is less frequent by now and the lovely mud the consistency of peanut butter is drying-up (of course it is like concrete when dry!). The RAO is genuine without a doubt. The suspension has undoubtedly been repaired at some point, but this is not a great detractor. The sword question is an interesting one. If the piece had swords they would have been screwed into the center at the points noted (for pieces through the colonial era, I believe that this was the case as opposed to soldering). So, there would be threaded holes at 10:00 o'clock, 2:00 o'clock, 4:00 o'clock, and at 8:00 o'clock (all approximate, but you get the idea). Usually, the pins that hold the centers in are two (2) in number and 180 degrees apart. If the swords (gold or gilded-silver) broke off, you would have a stub left that looks like a pin. In summary, four (4) holes in the center: the piece had swords in the past. Two (2) holes in the center: the piece never had swords. Stay safe! "SPM"

Hello Doc: As David pointed out, the Bavarian Military Merit Order has different grades of the Order for Officers and different grades of Merit Crosses for NCO's and enlisted men. Both are part of the Order. Hence, the Military Merit Order 4th Class with swords is for Officers and is made of enamelled silver, and the Military Merit Order, Merit Cross 3rd Class with swords for NCO's and enlisted men is made of copper or "kriegsmetal". I hope that this clarifies the issue. Best regards, "SPM"

Dear Chris: This theory was definately correct in the past when the DDR existed. Saxon, Anhalt, Mecklenburg, etc. pieces could be had for a song. Now it seems as though the prices of these items (and collector interest) is increasing exponentially as the economy of the "Eastern" areas is improving. That being said though, there isn't much that is "cheap" anymore. Prussian pieces used to be a relative bargain compared to Bavarian, but no longer! Smaller "states" items used to be "cheap" too as there were not many publications that pointed out how rare some of the items were. Now, collectors are starting to appreciate a lot more items as knowledge expands, and this is driving prices higher and higher. Best regards, "SPM"