Meet Prussian Major von Rheinbaben

[Claudio]

Dear fellow forumites:

I am proud to introduce to you my newest acquisition, which very likely you have already seen on a recent auction's catalogue.

Here is the Ordensspange of Major von Rheinbaben:

? Preussen, Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse 1870 am K?mpferband (OEK 1904) mit Eichenblattspange 1895 ?25? (OEK 1905)

? Preussen, Roter Adler Orden 4. Klasse mit Schwertern, 4. Modell, Ausf?hrung mit glatten Kreuzarmen (OEK 1703)

? Preussen, DA-Kreuz f?r 25 Dienstjahre der Offiziere 3. Modell 1. Typ (OEK 1970)

? Preussen, D?ppeler Sturmkreuz 1864 f?r K?mpfer (OEK 1928)

? Preussen, Kriegsdenkm?nze 1870/71 mit 2 Gefechtsspangen ?Paris? und ?Gravelotte-St. Privat? (OEK 1941/24/7)

? Preussen, Erinnerungskreuz ?K?niggr?tz? 1866 (OEK 1938)

? Preussen, Kriegsdenkm?nze 1864 f?r K?mpfer (OEK 1936)

? Preussen, Kr?nungsmedaille Kaser Wilhelm I 1861 (OEK 1855)

? Preussen, Centenarmedaille 1897 (OEK 1965/1)

Although on the reverse of the bar there was a label put by the previous owner and collector (the deceased Mr. Seymour) stating "Maj. v. Rheinbaben details on file", of course the auctioneer didn't keep the data or at least didn't passed it over to the new owner (me).

If anybody has more details on von Rheinbaben's career I would be most appreciated.

In the meanwhile please enjoy my pictures!

Ciao,

Claudio

P.S.: notice the very old and slightly faded "Hersteller-Etikett" of Godet, dated around the turn of the century, I would guess.

[Claudio]

A bigger picture of the obverse:

[Claudio]

A bigger and better picture of the obverse:

[Gerd Becker]

Wow, i am blown away, Claudio Especially the old style RAO is a Stunner

Great Medalbar

[Claudio]

Thanks Gerd!

Here's a detailed picture of the Iron Cross 2nd class 1870 with Einchelaub 25 and the early version RAO 4th class w/swords.

Ciao,

Claudio

[Glenn J]

Hi Claudio,

Viktor Freiherr von Rheinbaben. Still alive in 1910.

Regards

Glenn

[Ed_Haynes]

Lovely.

It is, however, very UNlovely and demonstrably CRIMINAL that the auctioneer saw fit to lose or throw away the research that the previous custodian had done. Is anyone up for do-it-yourself capital punishment?

Or, at least, public shaming. For those outside the Inner Circle, which criminal sold this one?

Edited August 9, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Guest Rick Research]

Andreas Thies apparently ran through tossing medals in sacks and did not, as the sole "defense" I can offer him (and I don't), know (or care???) about anything on the other 4 floors of the house where the rest of the collection (virtually all of which apparently went into the trash except for a very few books) was.

I did. I knew where everything was. Unfortunately Mrs. Seymour also died before I could get there as we had arranged to sort through George's notes, research, and so on. I will say no more on this subject since it remains a wound straight through my heart.

Viktor Hugo Freiherr von Rheinbaben, born Petkus 8 August 1844, died Sandford 28 April 1919.

Commander of the Order of Saint John, Major aD.

Married Berlin 30.1.1879 Wally von Rosenberg-Lipinsky (1855-1917). Their only child, a daughter Elisabeth Henrietta (b. 1880 alive 1958) married 1900 Hans-Dietrich Freiherr von Gemmingen, eventually bavarian Major aD (1869-1958).

Viktor's parents were Friedrich Wilhelm Alexander Blücher Freiherr von Rheinbaben (1813-1891) and Henriette von Lochow (1821-1886).

From C.A. Starke Verlag's 1959 "Genealogisches Handbuch des Adels, Freiherrliche Häuser Band A III.

I'll come back and add the family's coat of arms illustration.

[Ed_Haynes]

Andreas Thies apparently ran through tossing medals in sacks and did not, as the sole "defense" I can offer him (and I don't), know (or care???) about anything on the other 4 floors of the house where the rest of the collection (virtually all of which apparently went into the trash except for a very few books) was.

I did. I knew where everything was. Unfortunately Mrs. Seymour also died before I could get there as we had arranged to sort through George's notes, research, and so on. I will say no more on this subject since it remains a wound straight through my heart.

These things happen, Rick. All too often, I fear.

A lesson for all of us: Plan for That Day. And make sure whoever oversees the sorting out knows (or has in writing) what is to be done. And all of us could go under a bus this afternoon.

Edited August 9, 2006 by Ed_Haynes

[Guest Rick Research]

IN WRITING AND COPIED around among your friends so there is no misunderstanding about who is to do what.

All the oral agreement in the world means N O T H I N G if the third party doesn't even know.

The arms of the Barons Rheinbaben: gold with a black stag, © Starke Verlag, 1958:

Although their website is rather awkward to navigate and ordering "clicking" seems strange until you get used to it, Starke's books are magnificent, fully detailed as to content in their per-volume descriptions, and not expensive. Some of the volumes are "mint in tissue" never-sold original editions from the 1950s (!!!!) while others are reprints. I cannot recommend them highly enough for German noble research! I have had books at my house in exactly 7 days from online ordering.

http://www.starkeverlag.de/shopfactory/de/dept_26.html

BTW, few of the families had their arms shown in the book, so you've lucked out. These were custom done for stylistic unity by the publisher's own herald... at the exorbitant cost of DM 43 (about US $12.00 or so at the time).

[Bob Hunter]

Well done, Claudio! Congratulations!

[Wild Card]

Claudio!

I darned near went after this one, it's a classic! Glad you got it.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

Before any public condemnation takes place, I think that some clarification regarding the disposal of George?s collection is in order. First, I should say that George and I and our families have been very close friends since we first met at the 1981 OMSA convention; and as fate would have it, I was sitting next to George when he died at the 2004 convention.

Without compromising any private information, I can relate the following. George had left instructions prior to his death that his collection should be disposed through auction by the firm Andreas Thies. Accordingly, for reasons I cannot go into, George?s widow, Pauline, arranged for Andreas to get the collection immediately. What appears to have happened next is most unfortunate. Simply put, the collection and some records and paperwork were in one location while the main body of research and paperwork was in another. Andreas had no way way of knowing this and frankly Pauline was so terribly physically and emotionally drained that I doubt that it ever occurred to her to point it out, if she even knew - which I seriously doubt. Although the research material appears to have possibly been lost and certainly separated from it?s related pieces, there is also a possibility that all is, in fact, not lost. Only time will tell.

Meanwhile, there is something very important in this for all of us. Please prepare for the disposal of your collection as you would want it done; and, above all, do not overestimate the knowledge and ability of those responsible for it in your absence. If, for instance, you have pieces that you do not want separated, make your intentions clear. Keep it in mind that those responsible for disposal have an obligation, in some cases even a legal obligation, to maximize the monetary realization of your collection.

Regards,

Wild Card

[Laurence Strong]

Hi Claudio

What an amazing medal bar set.

[Daniel Murphy]

That is a magnificent bar. It is truly a shame that it was separated from it's documentation. I can only hope it will one day find it's way back to the bar.

Dan Murphy

[derGeneral]

Great bar ! The first RAO from the early model with swords I've ever seen ! Thanks for showing !

Edited August 10, 2006 by derGeneral

[Scott]

An absolutely beautiful bar!

[Mike Dwyer]

Wow, i am blown away, Claudio Especially the old style RAO is a Stunner

Great Medalbar

Okay, I'm not very knowledgable on the RAO (and a lot of others ) could you please tell what makes this an "old style" RAO?

[notned]

Claudio, that is a superb bar!

Hope it did not break the bank...

Sorry to hear of Georges death, he sounded like a good man, and a Knowledgeable collector. My condolences to his family.

Regards

Paul

[Heyday]

Hello,

I have found this forum via google. My name is von Rheinbaben and I am the owner of the documents of the medals you own. Viktor was the brother of my grand grand grandfather. I am very interested in contacting the owner of the medals.

Regards

v. Rheinbaben

[Claudio]

Guten Tag Herr v. Rheinbaben,

It is my pleasure to know one of the direct descendants of Major von Rheinbaben and gladly welcome you on this forum on behalf of all my friends and collector enthusiasts.

I am the current owner of your Grand-Grand Uncle's medal bar. I bought it at an auction in Germany a couple of years ago.

You can gladly send me a PM (personal message) if you have something personal to share or ask.

mit freundlichem Gruss

Claudio

P.S.: Maybe just a technicality, but I wanted to stress this fact: the medal bar is now in my rightfully ownership since I legally purchased it for quite a lot of money. If somebody in your family decided at some point years ago to sell this medal bar, it was their choice. I know that the medal bar came from a Gentleman’s collection in the USA who passed away some years ago and his family gave it to an auction for sale. This gentleman, I believe, had it in his collection since years, maybe already as soon as from early 80ies. I am sure that there are a couple of collectors here who could confirm it to you.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Claudio

[Heyday]

Hello Mr. Ortelli,

thanks for your answer. I want to point out, that I don´t want to claim any rights on the medals, that wasn´t my intent writing the message. Maybe it didn´t come through because of my bad english.

I was happy to find the pictures of the medals, because I have the originally documents for them.

But finally I want to say, if you want to sell the medals one day, please remind my e-mail (baron73@gmx.de). Maybe we can come together.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Stephan von Rheinbaben

[Claudio]

Dear Mr. von Rheinbaben,

If one day I decide to sell this medal bar, you will be the first to know.

Of course we (collectors and enthusiasts of German military history) would love if you could share some info or even some scans of your distant relative's documentation, not out of curiosity, but for learning more about Major von Rheinbaben's interesting military career and deeds.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen

Claudio

Edited July 20, 2017 by Claudio

[Heyday]

I can mail you the scans of the documents and even some infos of viktors life (in german) if you give me your e-mail adress. If you like, you can send it to my adress above and I will reply.

[Claudius]

This is a remarkable and wonderful meeting! With so many histories from the owner's of bars that are lost, it’s great to see when the medal bar and the documents/information come together.

(Similarly, I have always hoped that I would be contacted by the family of a F-P war veteran; Johann Karl Blume -But I digress.)

If it pleases you Claudio, when you have distilled the documents and information from Mr. Stephan von Rheinbaben, I hope you can share some of it here. Perhaps there a portrait photo of Major von Rheinbaben?