Oldenburg Awards

[chuck]

22 hours ago, Dave Danner said:

 

Awards for merit on the battlefront from 20 September 1918 (the date the clasp was authorized) on would be with the clasp. If one already had the cross for merit on the battlefront, your memory serves you right: it was up to the individual to obtain the clasp himself. From the Großherzogliche Militärkanzlei:

 

"Eine Nachlieferung der Spange für Verdienste in der Kampffront findet nicht statt, es bleibt dem einzelnen überlassen, sich diese selbst zu beschaffen."

Neal O'Connor Volume VI on Oldenburg quotes the same information of individuals being required to purchase the bar. I found it interesting in that the spangen appeared fairly quickly for sale in the stores in Oldenburg. This advertisement from Otto Hallerstede was only 30 days after the approval date. 

 

Regards,

Chuck

[chuck]

Gentlemen,

A fellow GMIC member Triadoro provided me a translation to the announcement dated 02Oct1918 of the Vor dem Feinde bar from a local Oldenburg newspaper that is different from the commonly stated wisdom that the bar was only for private purchase, and not awarded.

 

 

 

"You've presented an extremely important document that sheds considerable light on the award criteria for the "Vor dem Feinde" ribbon-clasp.  It is nothing short of an official announcement clarifying the purpose of this clasp and the circumstances under which it was to be awarded and worn. 

 

There is quite a bit of misinformation circulating about the "Vor dem Feinde" clasp.  Some posts in this forum (some even recently!) have suggested that recipients of the Friedrich August Cross 2nd Class privately purchased these clasps at their discretion and mounted them on their medal bars and ribbon bars as a decorative embelishment.

 

However, the announcement you've posted clearly states, that the Grand Duke himself instituted this clasp in order to specifically recognize meritorious combat-service on the front lines by recipients of the FA-Cross 2nd Class.

 

It continues by stating that recipients of the FA-Cross 2nd Class who received this award for service in the rear echelon, in occupied enemy territories, or in the German Homeland are NOT authorized to wear this clasp.  (Note that these 3 categories of recipients also received the FA-Cross on War Ribbon, not on the Non-Combatant Ribbon.)"

 

Furthermore, the announcement states that the clasp would be awarded along with the FA-Cross 2nd Class to frontline combatants... i.e, not separately, but together WITH the FA-Cross.   However, if somebody who already has an FA-Cross 2nd Class without a clasp gets transferred to frontline combat service, it was up to that individual to obtain a clasp entirely on his own.  There would be no separate award certificate for the clasp issued nor would a complimentary clasp be provided.  (It is for this reason that we see retailers of military products offering these clasps on a private-purchase basis, especially after the War.)

 

 

Thank You,

Chuck

[Beau Newman]

This unusual piece popped up in Louisville.  The details are very good with separately applied medallions and with the sword hilts and blades separate as well.  The high points of the design and cross edges have been polished.  Definitely not standard WWI construction.  Any thoughts.  Early? Custom? Spangenstucke?  It seems like a lot of effort for an out and out fake.

[91-old-inf-reg]

5 minutes ago, Beau Newman said:

 

Hello, 

In my honest on my opinion, I would say at best this is a spangestucke.
The swords aren’t the right style but this doesn’t always necessarily mean that it’s fake. In this case however, I’d have to lean towards them being inauthentic. Also, the arms of the cross are “speckled” like that of the RAO and not smooth, but once again this could be explained as being a wearers copy. For me, the biggest concern is just how large the swords are for the cross. 

best regards,

Dan

[lew]

IMO it’s a fake, the cross shows typical flaws from casting at several spots.

 

 

[VtwinVince]

I'm always very leery of any of these lower classes of the Hausorden, as the amount of fakery of these has been astounding.

[91-old-inf-reg]

Just now, VtwinVince said:

 

Quite. It’s really very unfortunate too, and forgers have gotten quite good at it too. I regret to say that even the one that I had shared on this thread turns out to be a forgery as well, even though it was identical to an example sold by Künker!
Even when you compare examples that have sold at auction, even some of the ones that are sold there are admittedly sold as forgeries. Its such a terrible mine field after the one I’ve purchased I’ve stayed away from all of these Ehrenkreuzes 

[Giannis S.]

I have the following medal bar. No EK2, but two LS medals. My guess for the medals:

 

1. Honor Cross of the House and Merit Order (2nd or 3rd Class)

2. Oldenburg Long Service Cross 

3. War Effort Cross

4. Prussian Landwehr Service Award

5. Centenary Medal 

 

 

[91-old-inf-reg]

Very nice bar! I would say that no.2 would be a non combatants Friedrich August Kreuz, especially when you consider the KVK right next to it. 
Congratulations on such a great find!

[Giannis S.]

I didn't think about this option, because with these double Oldenburg ribbons there are a few possibilities. Most likely the bar belongs to an EM/NCO, but I can't rule out an Officer as well.

[91-old-inf-reg]

If it is an Oldenburg long service cross or medal, probably the later, which after more thought, it most likely is, it’s a gendarmerie medal bar.

In all likelihood the first award is the FAK. Here’s a couple of examples:

 

 

[Giannis S.]

If it is any of the long service award for gendarmes, then it's a very limited medal bar, even with a possible ID. According to the following information from https://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/ : 

 

- 1st class cross was awarded 18 times

- 2nd class medal was awarded 35 times

- 3rd class medal was awarded 23 times

 

Source: The House Order and the Portable Decorations of Honour of the Grand Duchy of Oldenburg 1813-1918, by Friedhelm Beyreiß

 

 

[91-old-inf-reg]

It’s really a very very nice bar! Such bars are really an extreme rarity! Im really impressed!

[Giannis S.]

Thanks for your comments!

[Giannis S.]

The medal bar is starting to take shape. Now, for the last piece...

 

[91-old-inf-reg]

1 hour ago, Giannis S. said:

The medal bar is starting to take shape. Now, for the last piece...

 

Gianni,

This looks wonderful! Having these awards on it really makes such a difference! Congratulations on such a great find! 

[Edelweiß21]

On 11/11/2023 at 15:57, Giannis S. said:

I have the following medal bar. No EK2, but two LS medals. My guess for the medals:

 

1. Honor Cross of the House and Merit Order (2nd or 3rd Class)

2. Oldenburg Long Service Cross 

3. War Effort Cross

4. Prussian Landwehr Service Award

5. Centenary Medal 

 

 

Hello,

in my oppinion the 2. Ribbon is not an Oldenburg Gendarmerie Service Medal or cross. The correct ribbon for the Gendarmerie awards has thinner blue side-stripes. This is a typical Friedrich August Cross non-combatant ribbon.

I would rather see a Houseorder of Friedrich Peter Ludwig on the first place. Maybe an Ehrenkreuz 1. Class or a Knightscross 2. class. Those were awarded also in the war for great non-combat merites or when the winner already had a Friedrich August Cross with the red/blue ribbon. I own multiple examples of that. Or maybe it was awarded prewar in his civilist-life.

Greetings
 

[pinpon590]

Hello !

 

Here are mine !

 

 

😉

And this red cross medal, with case

 

 

 

🥰

[Stogieman]

Very nice! Thanks for sharing!

[VtwinVince]

Some more random Oldenburg material.

[Stogieman]

Nice group Vince!

[91-old-inf-reg]

4 hours ago, Edelweiß21 said:

Hello,

in my oppinion the 2. Ribbon is not an Oldenburg Gendarmerie Service Medal or cross. The correct ribbon for the Gendarmerie awards has thinner blue side-stripes. This is a typical Friedrich August Cross non-combatant ribbon.

I would rather see a Houseorder of Friedrich Peter Ludwig on the first place. Maybe an Ehrenkreuz 1. Class or a Knightscross 2. class. Those were awarded also in the war for great non-combat merites or when the winner already had a Friedrich August Cross with the red/blue ribbon. I own multiple examples of that. Or maybe it was awarded prewar in his civilist-life.

Greetings
 

I’m glad you got the chance to see this! It seems my initial thought was right, it’s still a very nice combination! 
 

Very nice house order with swords! And I may have said it before but I love the cased FAK1 Vince! 
 

Although it’s not an award, I thought it may be fitting to share this here:

 

 

best regards

Dan

[Giannis S.]

12 hours ago, Edelweiß21 said:

Hello,

in my oppinion the 2. Ribbon is not an Oldenburg Gendarmerie Service Medal or cross. The correct ribbon for the Gendarmerie awards has thinner blue side-stripes. This is a typical Friedrich August Cross non-combatant ribbon.

I would rather see a Houseorder of Friedrich Peter Ludwig on the first place. Maybe an Ehrenkreuz 1. Class or a Knightscross 2. class. Those were awarded also in the war for great non-combat merites or when the winner already had a Friedrich August Cross with the red/blue ribbon. I own multiple examples of that. Or maybe it was awarded prewar in his civilist-life.

Greetings
 

 

Thanks for your comments. You are right about the ribbon differences.They also have different stripe widths.

. 

 

 

11 hours ago, pinpon590 said:

Hello !

 

Here are mine !

 

 

😉

And this red cross medal, with case

 

 

 

🥰

 

8 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

Some more random Oldenburg material.

 

Nice collection you have both! Especially the cased medals. Thanks for sharing!

Edited November 25, 2023 by Giannis S.

[Stogieman]

10 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

Some more random Oldenburg material.

I especially like the boxed FAK1! Used to have one of those as well as the 2.kl in the packet

[Giannis S.]

With some additional research and help, the medal bar is restored.