EK 1914 EK 2. Klasse 1914 of Austrian Manufacture

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

I think that it could be interesting to describe the most typical Prussian award of WW1, in the version produced in Austria.

They were closely similar to the "original" ones, with the difference in the iron centre that was "blued" with the same procedure used for firearms, instead of the typical black lacquer/enamel finish.

The manufacturer was the well-known firm Rothe & Neffe of Vienna

I provide the pictures of two pieces: a full-size and a "Prinzengr??e", resp. with the Austrian triangular ribbon for combatants and non-combatants.

Obverse:

Edited June 6, 2007 by Elmar Lang

[Elmar Lang]

Reverse:

[Elmar Lang]

and, last but not least, the typical Austrian marking for non-precious metal; a "star" or, better an "asterisk", usually called "Sternchen-Punze" or "Stern-Punze", as struck on the full size cross' ring:

Best wishes,

Enzo

[Brian Wolfe]

Hi Enzo,

Very nice, thanks for sharing them.

Cheers

Brian

[gregM]

Nice crosses. The full sized cross looks to have the correct "wide" ribbon.

I do have a question. How do you attribute these to Rothe & Neffe ? I have never

actually seen a cross theat could be traced to that firm.

[buellmeister]

Elmar,

Interesting... Now, there may be another Manufacturer that I may have to go on the hunt for.... Just add it to my list I say.... LOL! Very Nice Crosses by the way.

Regards,

Joel

Edited June 7, 2007 by buellmeister

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

I've attributed this type of EK2 to Rothe & Neffe, Wien for two reasons: the first and most important is that Mrs. Rothe explained me that in the 70's, when I've bought the two pieces directly at their shop in Kohlmarkt (they still had a "stock" of original pieces for sale, besides the series of reproductions of orders). After WW1 the production of this type discontinued, being less expensive to re-sell german-produced pieces. A second reason is that if one's lucky enough to find such crosses in the Austrian-type case, it is always with the maker's mark of Rothe.

A question to Greg: why do you say that the "the full sized cross looks to have the correct "wide" ribbon"? As I can see, both pieces have their typical, original triangular ribbon.

Best wishes,

Enzo

Edited June 7, 2007 by Elmar Lang

[Chris Boonzaier]

A question to Greg: why do you say that the "the full sized cross looks to have the correct "wide" ribbon"? As I can see, both pieces have their typical, original triangular ribbon.

Best wishes,

Enzo

I think he means that we seldom see the REAL wider Austrian ribbon as opposed to trifolds with thinner German ribbon.

Best

Chris

[Elmar Lang]

I understand... yes, actually, it's quite difficult to find austrian-made original EK-ribbons...

kind regards,

Enzo

[Chris Boonzaier]

I understand... yes, actually, it's quite difficult to find austrian-made original EK-ribbons...

kind regards,

Enzo

In budapest I saw a pile, but they were probably later made.

[Motorhead]

@Enzo-as you know there's still a big discussion about Rothe&Neffe.I've never seen a hallmarked 1st Class exept the two screwbacks in Previteras book.Unfortunately the pics are too bad to judge the EKs. You said the "Sternchen" Punze is a sign for R&N-I'm still hunting EKs with the blued sheetmetal core...Not so often to see but I have got a few in my collection-2 different cores,the "Silber" stamping with 3 different pins,the other core type with a number of silvercontent stampings(both core variations also with screwbacks).-But no singn that would allow me to trace it back to R&N! The one pictured at the "Gei?ler" is described as"from an austrian officer",that was the only link that could go towards an austrian maker. A while ago a member of a german Forum shot a beautyful case in austrian style with the logo from R&N-the EK inside was a very beautyful one...but stamped with +M+.So as you can imagine I would really like to know more!

Micha

[gregM]

I think he means that we seldom see the REAL wider Austrian ribbon as opposed to trifolds with thinner German ribbon.

Best

Chris

That was my thought exactly. Thanks for clarifying it.

Just out of curiosity -- what does a Rothe & Neffe makers mark look like? I

have seen the Meybauer mistakenly discribed as the R&N makers mark.

Can someone please post a picture?

Thanks,

Greg

[Chris Boonzaier]

Does anyone else have any EK award documents to Austrians?

Thanks

Chris

[Elmar Lang]

Yes, I've already seen the Meybauer mark as attributed to C.F. Rothe & Neffe...

Their monarchy-time marks (I'll try to take good photos of them today) are usually "F.R." in an horizontal lozenge (rhombus), or "F.R" in a rectangle.

One can see Austrian Orders or Pilot's badges struck with "CFR" in a rectangle: this mark was used after WW1 only, especially on recently made (until the late 70's) copies.

The "Sternpunze" is not necessarily of Rothe: it is a generally used Austrian mark to indicate that a decoration wasn't made of precious metal. In the case of the pictured EK, that mark was stamped because the cross' frame is made of silver-plated brass.

On Previtera's book (page 171) there's a Prinzengr??e identical to my piece (except for the ribbon: my piece is a "Nichtk?mpfer" one), in its regular Austrian case with maker's logo of Rothe on the silk of the lid's inside.

In Austria it still happens to find cased EK's (in Rothe-hallmarked cases) and all of them are of the type with blued iron core. This can confirm what I've been told from Mrs. Rothe many years ago...

Best wishes for a nice Sunday,

Enzo

[hunyadi]

About a year ago I got a Prinzengrosse EK that looks similar to yours - can you post some close ups for comparison?

[ekhunter]

I too have searched for the elusive Rothe & Neffe ek, and to date, without success. Could it be a strong possibility that Rothe & Neffe was the maker of fine cases for ek's and was fitted/supplied with German made crosses? This is simply a theory, but if Rothe & Neffe were a manufacturer of ek's, then you would think that you would at least see them out there. Maybe we have and they were unmarked, maybe we have them in our collections as unknown makers, who knows? My point of contention is, if this firm was a manufacturer of these crosses, then a unique mark or core exclusive to this firm could probably be linked to them. I think to say a cross is a Rothe & Neffe without something definitive, well, is a stretch. I've seen Meybauers' and AWS' called Rothe & Neffe, but haven't seen a marked cross that I believed to be a R&N, at least not to date. If anyone has a Rothe & Neffe, then I would love to see it.

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

in reply to ekhunter, I would like to remember what I've written in one of my preceeeding posts: the two pieces from my collection illustrated at the beginning of this thread, were bought from me directly at the shop of Rothe & Neffe in Kohlmarkt, Vienna in the 70's. I found strange the iron core's finish (blued, instead of black lacquer) and Mrs. Rothe explained me that they were two pieces produced by their firm in the period 1914-1918. One of the two pieces bears the Austrian "star" mark to signify the use of non-precious metal. This mark was struck on Austrian-made decorations only.

Another thing is that Rothe never sold orders or decorations of other manufacturers in cases with their hallmark (unless with time, f.e. a Mayer's S?hne-made order would have been put in an empty Rothe-signed case found at a flea market...).

Best wishes,

Enzo

[Chris Boonzaier]

I am still looking for any pics of award documents to austrians if anyone has any to share?

Thansk

Chris

[Graf]

Hi,

I have similar "Prinzen" which I suspect is Austrian made It is marked on the small loop, however I cannot identify the mark. It looks like 800 but not sure

I got it from Austria

I got also full size EK2 with Austrian ribbon, however not sure it is Austrian made Cross. It is unmarked

It is part of EK Grouping

Regards

 

Graf

 

[Igor Ostapenko]

One year before - Januar 2016 - this cross was sold from Austria 

[Alex K]

Hi all just to jump in, I've had the attached for many years, is it likely to be Austrian made blued core? there is a mark on the ring but I can't identify it, it came with the tri-fold ribbon which looks period.

 

regards

 

Alex K

[Igor Ostapenko]

austrian ribbon too  

[Igor Ostapenko]

cross without hallmarks.