Soviet restoration of medals

[Wild Card]

[Alex K]

Hi Wild Card, yes I was being slightly light hearted, on a slightly more serious note, this thread has indeed shown that there are a large number of very differing opinions on what is obviously a very emotive subject. It sometimes helps to step back, inwardly digest comments made, and be reflective as to some of the very good points made. In the end it's about sharing info and views, if that eventually leads to a better understanding of how people view this hobby or the artifacts we generally collect then it's been worthwhile excercise. I'm sure it will continue

regards

Alex

[JimZ]

I read this thread with interest as I seem to have missed out on what was a hot topic indeed.

I'd say the solution is SIMPLE.

For me to make my argument I must first state that 1) I believe that medals should not be touched or restored in any way and 2) there is a general abundance of most medals....some less than others but still, more than one specimen can probably be found on the market at any given time.

And as luck would have it, specimens exist in varying degrees.

My argument is as follows:

If you are a single medal collector and you like shiny stuff then buy the shiny stuff!!. Do not buy, say, an ORS with damaged enamel unless you WANT to own the ORS with damaged enamel. Wait for the next opportunity to buy what your heart desires in the condition that you desire it in. Just wait for it to come - it almost always does!!!

If you a group collector, I then hope that you are above the face value of the medal knwoing that "beauty is only skin deep" and instead, appreciate the history and research potential behind the group. In such case the prima facia condition of the medal is secondary to the research the group may yield (or has yielded).

So next time you want to buy a medal or order do not just throw your money away on any order or medal but "invest" wisely (cringe cringe) in your collection ensuring that you go for original unrestored specimens that you will be able to treasure without any alteration.

The simplest solution is usually the right one .... without the need for strong words, hard feelings or overstressing one's point/argument.

Jim

[Alex K]

Hi Jim, thanks for your input. Again a very strong opinion with which a can't actually disagree. How ver just to muddy the waters slightly again (And this is where opinions may well once again differ), attached is an unofficial award I believe from the Kyffhauserbund (Spelt correctly?) which is an unofficial decoration for vets. The enamel has been repaired at some stage, I personally believe although I have no evidence, that it was done possibly by the recipient ity does appear to period, I don't think it's modern. As this may have been done by the recipient, has the repair devalued the piece to a collector. It didn't devalue it to me, although I would have prefered a flawless piece, BTW made by H C Timms Berlin

regards

Alex

[Guest Rick Research]

Alex: yup. Condition does affect value, whether damaged or repaired-- on an anonymous piece.

But as Wild Card and Jim say, that is not necessarily the case with a UNIQUE piece-- which an attributable German medal bar or Soviet serial numbered award is.

Would I buy a forlorn loose Red Star in the condition Wild Card has posted? As Jim states clearly--no. I'd save my pennies for a NICE one...

BUT if that poor 4-armed star is in a group (as I assume it must be ) and everything else being researchable, would I turn my nose up at a GROUP with one damaged piece-- especially if that poor thing itself could be researched?

In that case, no.

So it all depends.

[Naxos]

Alex: yup. Condition does affect value, whether damaged or repaired-- on an anonymous piece.

But as Wild Card and Jim say, that is not necessarily the case with a UNIQUE piece-- which an attributable German medal bar or Soviet serial numbered award is.

Would I buy a forlorn loose Red Star in the condition Wild Card has posted? As Jim states clearly--no. I'd save my pennies for a NICE one...

BUT if that poor 4-armed star is in a group (as I assume it must be ) and everything else being researchable, would I turn my nose up at a GROUP with one damaged piece-- especially if that poor thing itself could be researched?

In that case, no.

So it all depends.

Case in point:

belonged to a family member

Hardy

Edited July 2, 2007 by Naxos

[NavyFCO]

Here's one I'd love to fix.... This is an OGPW1 in one of my last remaining groups (now a total of 2) I broke this one... It was in a frame whose screw pulled out of the wall a few years back and in falling down, the enamel was broken. I was heartbroken that this happened, and still am. I'd love to fix it, but at the same time can't bring myself to "restore" an award and make it an obvious looking restoration. So for now, it remains.....

[NavyFCO]

And here's one that would be a shame upon history to repair. Note the star and the photo of the original owner wearing the exact star with the exact damage on it.

Some condition aficiandos would insist that it be restored if it could be. But if this is the way the vet wore it, why restore it???

Dave

[Alex K]

Hi Dave, no this piece should not be restored because it is as history intended, a genuine recipients piece, worn with pride, and the evidence to prove it, thats how it left the recipient's possesion. I think it's fantastic when you can obtain a decoration and also find positive proof that it was a worn piece, (Photo), I would display both medal and photo with pride in my little den!

regards

Alex

[Carol I]

I agree that any attempt to straighten those sword ends will most likely snap them right off. WEIRD as that is, I would leave the Order exactly "as is" because there is always a chance (stranger--far far stranger things have happened) that in 2 days or 30 years from now-- you might well find a nice portrait photograph of the original wearer proudly posing with his award squished that way...

so the tips would not chip Orders on either side of it?

Thanks Rick for your opinion. I do not think however that the owner had purposedly bent the tips of the swords transforming a war badge into something that could have easily been mistaken for a peacetime badge. Besides, for years after WWII there was no occasion for the bearer to pose with such an award, not to mention the danger associated with such an act. I would rather suspect that the badge was damaged by someone who did not know or understand its value, such as a kid playing with "grandpa's shiny trinkets found in the upper drawer".

This being said, I would not do anything to the badge unless I was certain that it would not do any further harm.

[Belaruski]

Hi Dave! I think you've hit on the quandry I have. If I buy a damaged item it's left as is, but if I'm responsible for damage ought I not try to put it right?

The difficulty is of course actually 'putting it right'.

perhaps people should show pictures of repaired awards done well!

[Wild Card]

NavyFCO (Dave),

With reference to your post #58, ?A picture is worth a thousand words.? Case closed. Thank you -

Wild Card

[Buterbrodov]

To repair damage I used epoxy and red ink.

[Ed_Haynes]

Seems pretty permanent to me.

[seb16trs]

hello gentlemen.

small enigma submitted to your sagacity:

what did I use?

BEFORE:

[seb16trs]

AFTER:

an hint: absolutely no chemical product.

Edited May 17, 2009 by seb16trs

[Kev in Deva]

Coke a Cola, followed by a good wash Kevin in Deva

[seb16trs]

coca-cola is good for ferrous oxydation...but here it is made from brass. We call that "vert de gris" here in France.

No, it is another product.

but you spotted the working area: the kitchen.

[Brian Wolfe]

I've used vinegar with good results, and it makes me hungry.

Regards

Brian

[seb16trs]

let's see towards the Mediterran?a... a very old kitchen ingredient, softer than coca (phosphoric acid) and vinegar. ;)

[Carol I]

Brass pin? I guess it's olive oil.

[seb16trs]

Brass pin? I guess it's olive oil.

you're the winner!

an old tip from Italian numastics, given by a fellow member of the GMIC, Lapa.

Olive oil is slightly acid, and doesn't cause any degradation.

I left the badge 2 months in an oil bath. Then I took him, deceaved to see no changes. But when I wipped it I was surprised to see the green oxydation was now a "mud" which went away with a smooth toothbrush.

Edited May 17, 2009 by seb16trs

[Guest Rick Research]

:Cat-Scratch: I was only aware of the mis-use secret police forces make of Coca Cola... not as a rust remover.

I have a torn to pieces (not by me!!!) medal bar with a flawless mint 1914 EK2 and black finished Silesian Eagle 2nd Class which both appear to have had acid (?) DRIP on them-- producing three dimensional, highly localized SPOTS of rust. The rest of each award is flawless. (Whatever it was must have ruined the ribbons, causing the seller to tear the awards off and throw anything not metal away.)

What might I do with those?

I hate to think of a) buying Coca Cola (which I don't drink, neither liking the taste nor knowing what evil it is used for in places where pantyhose on heads is NOT considered "torture") b) leaving these submerged in a dish someplace for xyz ?months/years... and then discovering every bit of the black finish removed and my poor 95% mint babies COMPLETELY ruined.

???

[marcotk]

Olive oil is slightly acid, and doesn't cause any degradation.

And I am curious, which Olive Oil did you use? Regular, Diluted, ExtraVergine? :cheers:

[Ulsterman]

Olive oil!!!!

Now THAT is worth knowing!!

Thanks-