Weimar time medal bars

[Claudio]

So many splendid Weimar Era bars... thanks for showing them! It doesn't bother me at all, if from time to time, you can see such bars with no EK, since these EKs were "recycled" to assemble new bars after 1934-35, according to the new rules, which prohibit to wear non-official Weimar era veteran decorations, although some were allowed to be worn (see Schlesischer Adler, Baltic cross... etc.)

@ Jean-Sam: love your 4 placed frack bar... look at the sewing of the lower ribbon on the back... so much work in it! ;-) Also very nice the one of the 16th IR... only one "official" medal on the bar (LW long service medal). If you decide to part with them let me know... ;-) Just kidding! Enjoy them as much as I do!

Thanks also for re-activate this very interesting (at least to me) thread!

ciao,

Claudio

[dedehansen]

Absolutely splendid group!

Furthermore you have unwillingly brought an answer to a topic I started regarding the "Deutsches Feld-Ehrenkreuz".

But what exactly are the colours of the ribbon?

On my screen, it appears to be light blue with a broad central ladder-like black and white stripe bordered by small red stripes. Can you confirm please?

By the way, should you one day decide, for whatever reason, to sell this group, DO NOT HESITATE to contact me!

All the best,

Jean-Sam.

Hello Jean - Samuel,

You are right with the colours.

Here now the Besitz - Urkunde.

Andreas

[j-sk]

Another WW1 group of 4 nicely mounted by Reimann: infanterie-Regiment 124.

[j-sk]

And I'll end today with some of my favourite pieces: 2. Leibhusaren-regiment Nr. 2 commemorative cross + headdress.

[Eric Stahlhut]

An usual small bar:

? Inoffizielle Medaille des Prinzen Heinrich von Preussen, Admiral der deutschen Flotte, Amerikafahrt in Februar 1902, Taufe der Kaiserjacht ?Meteor? durch Mrs. Roosevelt, Tochter des Pr?sidenten von Amerika

? Weimarer Republik, Regiments-Erinnerungskreuz der ehemaligen deutschen Wehrmacht, mit Spange ?2. Hannov.Jnf.R. 77?.

hi claudio,

you have probably figured it out by now, but what you have in post #4 is most definitely not a weimar era small bar, but nevertheless it certainly is unusual!

it's an 1900's-era bar to a veteran who emigrated to the united states of america. notice the stars and stripes on the ribbon. also, the regimental honor cross is not in the weimar style--it's the earlier version.

even better than a weimar time medal bar, in my opinion

here's something similar:

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2014/post-4736-0-76375300-1397097272.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_04_2014/post-4736-0-08406600-1397097294.jpg

Edited April 10, 2014 by Eric Stahlhut

[j-sk]

Good evening Gentlemen,

Another "revelation" to me about the "Weimar Ordensspangen": here is an interesting... and most intriguing... photo I have recently acquired.

What really attracted me in this picture is the rather weird four-medal bar on the chest of this sharpshooter.

First of all, the EKII is actually sporting three combat bars (Mazedonien / Aisne-Champagne / Vogesen) which should normally be worn with the Kyffhaeuser-Kriegsdenkmünze.

Then, the combination of two Regiments-Erinnerungskreuz on the same "Ordensspange" (actually a "treu dem Regiment" [next to the Kyffhaeuser medal] and a "treu dem Bataillon", from what I could make out of the picture with a magnifying glass).

And last but not least, the fact that the unit bars of both regimental/bataillon crosses... have been removed... ?!?!?... but God knows WHY...??? (the small holes on the ribbons are still visible where these unit bars used to be fixed). Should anyone has an explanation, his answer would be most welcome.

Conclusion: almost everything seemed possible during the Weimar era!

All the best.

Jean-Sam.

[dedehansen]

Absolutely splendid group!

Furthermore you have unwillingly brought an answer to a topic I started regarding the "Deutsches Feld-Ehrenkreuz".

But what exactly are the colours of the ribbon?

On my screen, it appears to be light blue with a broad central ladder-like black and white stripe bordered by small red stripes. Can you confirm please?

By the way, should you one day decide, for whatever reason, to sell this group, DO NOT HESITATE to contact me!

All the best,

Jean-Sam.

Hello Jean - Sam,

a detailphoto from the reverse of the bar, there the colors aren´t bleached.

Regards

Andreas

[j-sk]

Thanks Andreas for this detailed photo of this to me very appealing multiple medal bar.

Regards,

Jean-Sam.

[lambert]

Another Medal Bar of Weimar with buttonhole.

Eiserne Kreuz II Class - Prussiam

Kriegsverdienstkreuz II Class - Brunswich

Deutscher Reichskriegerbund "Kyffhäuser"

Lambert

[christerd]

Here is my latest ribbon bar

EK - Sachsen Ehren Kreuz- Sachsen Weimar Allg Eh- Flandernkreuz with " Verdun " + " Flandernschlacht " -Ehrendenkmunze- Küffhäuser- Ostereich Ehrenlegion-??

I have never seen the Verdun on a Full Flandernkreuz but I suppose they could order whatever they wanted , but what is the last ribbon ??

Blue-Yellow-Red-yellow-blue

Christer

[j-sk]

Very nice ribbon bar.

I do not find it particularly weird to see a VERDUN bar on a Flandernkreuz ribbon. Such bar was actually produced by Paul Küst for this cross (see: HüSKEN, Katalog der Auszeichnungen des Deutschen Reiches 1871-1945; Fa. Paul Küst Berlin; page 120).

Regarding the last ribbon, it is the Regiments(Bataillons)-Erinnerungskreuz. There were various ribbons issued for this cross. This blue-yellow-red-yellow-blue ribbon indicates a regiment/bataillon wearing red shoulder-boards and yellow cypher/number on the blue peace-time tunic.

Cheers,

Jean-Samuel Karlen

[christerd]

Aha , Thanks Jean-Samuel

Does anybody knows a regiment/batallion with red/yellow shoulder boards that could have been in Flandern ?

Since the Sachsen medals I suppose I´m looking for a SachsenRgt ...

Christer

[j-sk]

Quite probably, but not forcibly!

All Saxon infantry regiments wore red-piped dark blue shoulder-boards. Unless this Saxon soldier was incorporated in a non-Saxon infantry regiment (Bavarian or Prussian), the ribbon should inevitably be dark blue / red / dark blue / red / dark blue.

I therefore looked for cavalry regiments. The only plausible regiment present in the Flanders and Verdun is the Königlich Sächsisches 1. Husaren-Regiment "König Albert" Nr. 18 (Grossenhain), XII Armee Korps, which was part of the 32. Division (3. Königlich Sächsische).

The uniform of this 18. Saxon Hussars also sports some caracteristics of the ribbon: blue attila, yellow braiding and red Kolpak.

Am I right, am I wrong in my guessing, it is hard to tell since Firma Paul Küst and its archives vanished into thin air after Berlin was bombed to the ground in 1945.

I hope this help.

Cheers,

Jean-Sam.

[j-sk]

Here are two of my latest (and rather interesting) acquisitions:

- Bataillons-Erinnerungskreuz, Reserve Jäger-Bataillon Nr. 15 + associative badge;

- Group of five with YPERN - SOMME- RUMÄNIEN clasps, Königlich Sächsisches 16. Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 182 (Freiberg), XIX Armee Korps.

Cheers,

Jean-Samuel Karlen

[lambert]

Interesting. the Hungary medal we can say that the group was set up in 1939?

Lambert

Edited December 22, 2014 by lambert

[j-sk]

Actually, no.

The Hungarian medal was issued in May 1929 (see: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ungarische_Weltkriegs-Erinnerungsmedaille).

The unofficial medals (Flandernkreuz/Deutsche Ehrendenkmünze des weltkrieges/Regiments-Erinnerungskreuz) were banned from medal groups in 1934 onwards and replaced by the Ehrenkreuz des Weltkrieges (Hindenburgkreuz; see:http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrenkreuz_des_Weltkrieges) issued in July 1934.

This group must therefore have been set up between mid-1929 and mid 1934.

Jean-Sam.

[lambert]

It is always good to update information ..

So it's safe to say that medals Weimar in a bar with Hindenburgkreuz can be considered "Fake"?

Lambert

[j-sk]

Yes, to a certain extent.

At least on full size medal bars.

The only Weimar medal authorized after 1934 -- but only until 1936 -- was the oval Kyffhäuser-Denkmünze (see: http://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/weimarer-republik/kyffhauser-denkmunze-fur-191418.html).

But this rule seems to apply on full size bars only because I have seen miniature groups and ribbon bars sporting the Hindenburkreuz together with other Weimar unoffcial medals... but why...

Jean-Sam.

[j-sk]

Addenda:

I said "to a certain extent", because as shown on the following pictures, the two elderly veterans did not seem to apply strictly to the rules...

One with both Kyffhäuser-Denkmünze and Hindenburgkreuz (...unless the photo was taken between 1934 and 1936...).

The "medic" wearing the Hindenburgkreuz together with the Kyffhäuser-Denkmünze with six campaign clasps (when only five were authorized for wearing on the ribbon), a cross that looks like the Bayerisches Kriegs-Erinnerungskreuz (definitely banned after 1934) and several other crosses issued years after the Weimar medals (including the Kyffhäuser-Denkmünze) were banned...

Weird as it seems, what would be considered as fake is in fact reality... since photos never lie (see this link for clearer pictures: http://antique-photos.com/en/awardsdatabase/weimarawards/223-kriegsgedenkmunze.html).

Jean-S.

[Ulsterman]

Actually, the HKx was promulgated in the summer of 1934 and mass awards began late that Fall and into 1935. the other unofficial awards weren't completely banned until late 1935 and don't seem to have disappeared until 1936/37.

A couple of your photos belong to me- notably that Bavarian Red Cross General, which was taken in @1955-1960.

you might also wish to consult the thread about "mistakes in wear" , showing TR era medal bar errors ranging from the sublime to the truly jaw dropping.

Some older veterans never stopped wearing their earlier Weimar membership awards, especially local medals. Still, it was unusual, if not rare.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Ulsterman

[lambert]

Hi Jean .

I was pleased with all answers to me were very valuable for my collections. Thank you very much.
I have photos of some items that I think I suspect I will try and show you to analyze.

Lambert

[j-sk]

Here is a group I bought several years ago. Typically, the owner seperated the official crosses from his Weimar group when he received the Hindenburgkreuz, after 1934... but kept the miniatures hanging together on the same chain.

[lambert]

Hello Jean.

View this Ordensspange includes the Hindenburg Cross and the Legion of Honor together.

 

 

what do you think?

 

 

Lambert

[j-sk]

_{Hello Lambert,}

_{What an interesting "Ordensspange".}

_{Although I am always slightly taken aback when it comes to deal with Hindenburgkreuz mixed with other unofficial Weimar medals mounted together on the same bar, this particular group looks original, i.e. mounted before WW2, just like the group in the following picture (taken from the thread "Mistakes in wear"): against all regulations, we can see,  from left to right / Hindenburgkreuz for non-combattant / Legion of Honour without the wreath and sword on the ribbon / Flandernkreuz / what looks like a Prussian long service medal / Prussian Red Cross 3rd class medal / Hungarian 1914-1918 non-combattant medal.}

_{It is therefore not impossible to find genuine pre-WW2 "Ordensspangen" mixing the Hindenburgkreuz with officially banned Weimar medals !!!}

_{In your case, I guess that the original owner replaced himself, on his Weimar 4-medal group, the last unofficial medal (possibly the Kyffhäuserbund medal???) by the newly acquired Hindenburgkreuz and kept the Legion of Honour in its original place in order to "fill the gap" a 3 medal group would have left on a 4 medal bar...}   

 

_Jean-Sam.

 

 _,

[Paul R]

Great photos!!  On that last one, a shame that all he will be left with in 1934 is the HK...