Weimar time medal bars

[dond]

15 hours ago, depaor01 said:

Hi all,

 

I was directed to this forum from another WWI forum and hope you can help. I have no Austro Hungarian medals in my collection and was delighted to pick this up recently. It's amazing how accurate a picture of the original recipient you can get from the different awards. As best I can fathom out, this is the man's story reading the medals left to right:

 

Decorated for Bravery: Franz Josef Medal in Silver

Was in a combatant unit for at least 12 weeks: Karl Truppenkreuz

Was wounded five times : Austro-Hungarian Wound Medal with five stripes on ribbon

War Commemorative Medal (Pro Deo et Patria)

Tirol Defence Medal: Possibly member of a mountain troop?

Commemorative medal of the World War

Bulgarian European War Commemorative Medal: Served in Bulgarian forces(?)

 

 

 

If any experts out there could confirm that my assumptions above are correct, and also someone might have an idea about the unusual ribbon arrangement. Being Austrian shouldn't they be triangular?

 

Any help much appreciated.

 

Dave

Can we see the back side of this bar please.

[bolewts58]

Yes. Can we see the back? The ribbons are sort of folded in a Southern German style, but in a rather messy way and seem rather loose. Maybe some red flags here.

[depaor01]

No problem. Not at my pc at the moment but rear has the usual felt backing and pin arrangement.

Leave it with me for a mo.

Dave

 

 

[depaor01]

Here's the back. Best I can do with temporarily limited resources! My recall is faulty. Obviously not felt backing.

 

Dave

Edited May 2, 2016 by depaor01

[j-sk]

This group looks rather original.

The ribbon for the Karl Truppenkreuz seems to have been neglected though. The visible bit has been clumsily mounted.

As you said, one would expect to find these medals mounted with their original large ribbons in the Austrian fashion (triangle).

But  would the owner have decided to wear them in the German way after the "Anschluss" of 1938...?    

[depaor01]

That's an interesting theory. Thanks for the information and opinions all.

Dave

[speedytop]

Hi,

another Austrian-German medal bar, not direct in the Austrian fashion:

Uwe

[lambert]

On 02/05/2016 at 10:36, bolewts58 said:

Yes. Can we see the back? The ribbons are sort of folded in a Southern German style, but in a rather messy way and seem rather loose. Maybe some red flags here.

It seems to have been fitted with the mini Ribbon..

BR

Lambert

Finally I came back ..
After some time off-line features a Weimar Ordensspange Wurtemberg

1. Militärverdienstmedaille silver
2. Dienstauszeichnung 3.Klasse 1913 für 9 Jahre
3. Kyffhäuser 1914/18

Lambert

Edited June 9, 2016 by lambert

[j-sk]

Very nice group Lambert,

Regarding miniature ribbons used with full size medals, I also have a couple.

So I suppose it as up to the wearer to decide what would look the best on parade...(?!?)

As I said once, everything seemed possible during the Weimar era.

Jean-Sam.

11 minutes ago, j-sk said:

Very nice group Lambert,

Regarding miniature ribbons used with full size medals, I also have a couple.

So I suppose it as up to the wearer to decide what would look the best on parade...(?!?)

As I said once, everything seemed possible during the Weimar era.

Jean-Sam.

... And another full size group with mini ribbons.

[lambert]

hello Jean

Wonderful ! see .. I have a mini Kyffhäuser , see compared to the full size medal.

Best

Lambert

[j-sk]

On ‎13‎.‎06‎.‎2016 at 21:47, lambert said:

hello Jean

Wonderful ! see .. I have a mini Kyffhäuser , see compared to the full size medal.

Best

Lambert

Very nice lot, Lambert. 

Some minis also sport the combattants' crossed swords (see below).

Note also that there are two different coinages:

one has Hindenburg's citation (reverse) with "stolz" (proud), the other one with "froh" (happy).

[scottplen]

Nice wurttemberg Gold bravery medal on nice Weimar era bar guess I date this bar to about 1929 to 1933 

[Uffz. Rohleder]

A two placer and my one and only with a Weimar Award

[graham]

Nothing special but a little strange.

My EK2, Kyffhäuser Union War Veterans Commemorative medal, Hindenburg Cross and Prussian Veterans Commemorative medal bar: -

The EK2 is marked S-W. The Hindenburg Cross has an incorrect ribbon (looks like a Hanseatic Lübeck cross ribbon)

[j-sk]

This is an interesting group.

From what I see, I have two remarks:

- It is not the Hindenburg cross that sports an incorrect ribbon, but the Lübeck ribbon that has the incorrect cross. What I mean is that the Hindenburg cross should not be placed there at all: according to the 1934 regulations, all the veterans' associative medals/crosses were banned from the Ordensspangen and had to be replaced by the one and only Hindenburg cross. We can see as well that the Hindenburg cross disrupt the continuing line formed by the other three crosses/medals.

- It also seems that one medal or cross is missing (see the two empty slots on the back). The Hindenburg/Lübeck plate has been placed in the middle to fill partly the gap.

All in all, I guess there has been some changes in this group. It should look as follows: starting from left to right, the EK2 comes first, followed by the Lübeck cross, then either a long service cross/medal or another official cross/medal or a veterans' commemorative cross/medal + Kyffhaeuserbund medal and finishing the line with the Kyffhaeuser-Verdienstskreuz. Please also note that each ribbon should overlap the one placed on its right.  

All the best. 

Jean-S.

 

[graham]

Jean-S,

Good information, thanks for the feedback. Certainly makes some sense.

Regards,

Graham

[Utgardloki]

 

On 24/11/2008 at 10:35, Claudio said:

Hi everybody!

 

The Ebay seller found Godet's original invoice and kindly sent it to me... incredible! Now also this bar has a name (Rud. Wendt)!!!

 

As you can see, the bar has been put together by Godet in the summer of 1930, still during the Weimar Republic period. Mr. Wendt provided Godet with all the medals and ribbons and Godet just had to made this very interesting bar.

 

Finally it all comes together...

 

Ciao,

 

Claudio

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 24/11/2008 at 21:03, Claudio said:

Thanks Rick for your kind words. Yes, such a documentation is rare... ask yourself a question: Did you ever keep an original invoice for more than 70 almost 80 years?

 

It would be interesting to know how much is the amount of that invoice translated in today's money... I got the feeling that already at that time, Godet was on the expensive side...

 

 

Ciao,

 

Claudio

Lets try to answer how much money it would be today. That is not very accurate but should answer if it was expensive or not.

In 1936    8 Mark were ~0,645 £ or 0 £ 12 s. 11 d. (12 shilling and 11 pence) which is today 43,05£ which is 47,03 € or 52,86 USD

So today we would approximately pay 50 €

Edited August 25, 2019 by Utgardloki

[alan_g]

Sharing some Weimar period ribbon bars, not sure what all ribbons are. But hope they are of interest in this thread. 

[j-sk]

 

The ribbons are (left to right) :

Eisernes Kreuz 2kl. // Deutsche Ehrendenkmünze des Weltkrieges 1914-18 (mit Kampfabzeichen (with combattant badge]) // Kyffhaeuserbund Kriegsdenkmünze 1914-18 (mit Schwertern [with swords]) // Deutsches Feldehrenkreuz 1914-18 (mit Schwertern [with swords])

[j-sk]

The ribbons are (left to right):

Eisernes Kreuz 1 & 2 classes // Deutsche Ehrendenkmünze des Weltkrieges 1914-18 (mit Kampfabzeichen (with combattant badge]) // Preussischer Landes-Kriegerverband Kriegs-Erinnerungskreuz 1914-18 (mit Schwertern [with swords]) // Regiments-Erinnerungskreuz (mit Schwertern [with swords: in this case, the swords indicate that the soldier participated in WW1; without swords: member of the regiment prior to 1914 but did not take part in WW1] … the colours of the ribbon indicate either artillery, pionneer, intelligence or railways. Neither infantry nor cavalry; plain blue ribbon for naval troops). 

[alan_g]

Thank you for the breakdown of those awards! Very helpful and much appreciated. Weimar awards aren’t my strongest point. 

[CRBeery]

A nice pair from me! Both are the non-combatant version and I think this is the first time I have seen the first cross mounted as a non-combatant.

[FiveStars]

Hello gentlemen,

 

I don't have much to contribute to this topic personally, but I was wondering if anyone here can definitively identify the ribbonbar of Otto von Lossow, G. LT, pictured here. Wikipedia has a listing of his awards, but I am unsure whether they correspond to the image here, and if they account all the nuances. 

 

I've attached a photograph of the ribbon bar; hope it is of good enough quality.

 

-Warmest regards

 

[Claudio]

Last addition to my collection, a 4 placed Weimar era medal bar also shown on J. Nimmergut’s book on “ Abzeichen und Auszeichnungen deutscher Kriegervereine: 1800 - 1943” : 

1. Ehren- und Erinnerungskreuz des Marinekorps Flandern, Bronze mit sechs Bandspangen "ANTWERPEN" "YSER" "YPERN" SOMME" "FLANDERNSCHLACHT" und "DURCHBRUCHSSCHLACHT";
2. Königreich Preußen: Militär-Dienstauszeichnung für Unteroffiziere und Soldaten, 2. Modell (1913-1920), Kreuz 1. Klasse für XV Dienstjahre, Zink;
3. Regiments-Erinnerungskreuz, Buntmetall vergoldet, mit zwei Bandspangen "RES. JNF. RGT. 227" und "RES. JNF. RGT. 263";
4. Kyffhäuser Kriegsdenkmünze 1914-1918 des Deutschen Reichskriegerbundes "Kyffhäuser" mit Frontkämpfer-Abzeichen, Buntmetall vergoldet, mit Schwertern.