Soviet Prices on lenin order

[Guest Darrell]

....Paying 10... 50 ... 3,000 times what something is "worth" is clinically insane.

At some point, when the music stops...

there aren't going to be enough chairs.

"New money" just can't throw it away fast enough--the fools.

Rick's hit the nail on the head. I guess you can't really blame the dealers .... If I could put EK1's on e-stand or Sales on this forum and get $5000, why not. Dropping prices down just so regular smucks can afford it wouldn't help but give it to the same greedy b*stards at a cheap price.

However, when the music stops, it stops for the dealers as well ..... food for thought Mr.Profit

[koopyetz]

Hello:

Having started my collection in the fall of 2007 I was amazed how quickly it seemed to go up over the past year. I feel I am very fortunate with what I now can take care of. And, thanks to the serial numbers, I can research and learn about the person behind the award and extend my hobby thru the enjoyable task of translating the documents.

Regards

Rick

[Christian Zulus]

Has anyone a list of Dimitry's hammer prices ?

Gentlemen,

I almost can't believe the posted prices for the Soviet items .

But the prices for the Imperial stuff went already last year at the London-auction crazy and now USD 500k for a boxed "St. Anne" .

Has anyone the list of Dimitry's already ?

Best regards

Christian

[Ed_Haynes]

No, so far nothing is up. It was, apparently, possible to follow this online by live audio feed but I never bothered. Part of me wishes I had. (Though I have been told the auctioneer found it necessary to comment that he felt the sale would go betrter and faster if he spoke Russian.) I have a considerable interest in seeing where two of the items went.

[new world]

Member Brian posted this on Art's forum:

"Here were some of the "hammer" prices for some of the Soviet stuff (keep in mind there is also a 12% buyer's premium on top of this). They don't seem to have the final bids posted anywhere, but here is what i remember:

Gold Head order of lenin with book: $150,000 (ten times posted reasonable estimate)

Silver head order of lenin: $43,250

Platimum head screwback orders of lenin: $14,000

Red Banner screwback (non mirror back): over $3000

RB screwback #2: i think was like $24,000

Red star with SN 18K: $1,500

BoH screwback with book SN 8K,1939: like $30,000"

William

Edited January 13, 2008 by new world

[Eric Schena]

I am real curious about the prices realized. The first medals I ever collected were Imperial Russian and Soviet.

I have not bought a Soviet medal in many years precisely because of this trend and Imperial medals, sheesh, no new ones there for over 10 years. The last one I bought was a Victory over Germany medal with a doc to a Bulgarian and that was maybe 2 years ago. I consider myself fortunate that at least I got a documented Lenin back in 1993 for $600, a screwback RB like the one that sold here for over $3,000 for all of $125, and a researched OPW 1st class to a SMERSH lt. col. for $300 (I posted it here some time back - look for it, the story is interesting to say the least). Would I like to add to my small collection? Absolutely - I'd LOVE nothing more than to have a screwback ORBL or a St. Anne/St. Stanislaus. Is it going to happen in this price climate? Not in the least. So I now consider my USSR part of my collection as complete as it is going to get. What's worse is now with these prices, if someone wanted those three decorations I listed for prices like what they are now fetching, let's just say it may take me all of 5 minutes to think about that ("Hmm...three medals for the same amount of money a decent used car costs..."). this was the main reason I went into Eastern Bloc medals, especially Albanian medals. How much longer will I be able to collect medals period? Difficult to say at this point - in fact I have not bought a medal in almost a year now due to cost. Will I enjoy what I have? Absolutely and I'll keep absorbing information as long as I can. That said, this price insanity is discouraging.

Cheers,

Eric

[Ostfront]

I would say, that the end of soviet collecting in very near for me. I just can't keep up anymore, the prices are insane. There was arround 100% do 200% rise of prices of even common stuff in just one year. I do not even want to lose words about rare stuff. Common Red banners were 150$ just one year back, now they are 350$. Next year 700$ perhaps? Where and when will this stop?

[paddywhack]

i feel lucky that when i started collecting soviet awards it was at the start of 2000 the prices actully way better then german prices and the fakes at the time wernt as bad as the german field either!but now its no where near that now! the last thing i got was a order of glory 2nd and that was in trade! and to be honest i reckon my soviet collection could well stay where it is!!!i feel lucky though to have got my lenin foir E600 2 odd years ago!!!

Edited January 13, 2008 by paddywhack

[Ed_Haynes]

i feel lucky that when i started collecting soviet awards it was at the start of 2000 the prices actully way better then german prices and the fakes at the time wernt as bad as the german field either!but now its no where neare that now! the last thing i got was a order of glory 2nd and that was in trade! and to be honest i reckon soviet collection could well stay where it is!!!i feel luck though to have got my lenin foir E600 2 odd years ago!!!

True, but I'd have liked to find a screwback Lenin before it was All Over. But, if it isn't there yet, is is sure getting close. Spend my money on research (and language lessons) now?

[Guest Darrell]

The day Alexei closed up shop was the day I stopped "doing" Soviet ....

Edited January 13, 2008 by Darrell

[new world]

As they should be since the can't be researched and therefore have NO history to them.

...

Ed,

But good half of Soviet awards aren't researchable either. Take labor, pre-WW2 or partizans awards.

Some German awards are researchable in their own way. You won't get detailed citations, but military history can be traced if award is attributed.

William

[Ed_Haynes]

Ed,

But good half of Soviet awards aren't researchable either. Take labor, pre-WW2 or partizans awards.

Some German awards are researchable in their own way. You won't get detailed citations, but military history can be traced if award is attributed.

William

Anything that is numbered (or named) can be researched, some day, so long as the records aren't trashed. And I have actually had good luck with some early labor awards. The researchers (and research wholesalers) just need to think -- and bribe -- their way outside their unfortunate military-fixated habituted channels.

An attribution does not, alas, give much to chew on. Depends, I guess, on how much you trust the attribution in today's commercial world, where every dealer/collector has a tale, or several.

[new world]

Friends,

Here's something for you to drool over.

I saved this old price list from 2003-2004 on my PC - look over it and think about golden days of Soviet collecting.

2003 is when prices started going up.

"

Prices of Soviet awards in Ukraine October 2003 - February 2004

A friend regularly reports prices of Soviet awards in Ukraine and concludes that all markets take cue from Kiev (prices are in USD and are applicable also to Odessa, Kiev, Lvov, Rovno, Uzhgorod and Chernovtsi).

First prices are from mid-October 2003 and the second from December 2003. The last price is from February 2004.

ORDERS

OF LENIN (on suspension) 420-430; 460-490

OF LENIN (Mondvor) 1.600 (February 2004)

OCTOBER REVOLUTION 90-100; 110-130; 130-150

THE RED BANNER from 55;

THE RED BANNER (screwback) from 230;

ALEXANDER NEVSKY from 450; 500; 520;

ALEXANDER NEVSKY (on suspension) 800; 850; 850-900;

THE PATRIOTIC WAR, 1ST CLASS from 135

THE PATRIOTIC WAR, 2ND CLASS from 20-25

THE RED BANNER OF LABOR 14-15; 20

THE RED BANNER OF LABOR (flatback) from 30

OF FRIENDSHIP OF PEOPLES 190-220; 200 -250, 220-250;

THE RED STAR 8-10; 10-20; 25;

THE RED STAR (screwpost base) from 20;

SERVICE TO THE MOTHERLAND IN THE ARMED FORCES, 2ND Cl. 500

SERVICE TO THE MOTHERLAND IN THE ARMED FOR. 3RD Cl. 150-170; 180; 185-190;

BADGE OF HONOR 10; 12; 15

BADGE OF HONOR (flatback) from 25; 30;

FOR PERSONAL COURAGE (USSR) 320; 350; 350

FOR PERSONAL COURAGE (without USSR) 450 (with documents from Gorbachev); 550

OF GLORY 2ND CLASS 100; 140; 160

OF GLORY 3RD CLASS 23-25; 25; 25-45

MEDALS

FOR BRAVERY 8;10

MEDAL FOR BRAVERY (small suspension) 30-35; 35

USHAKOV from 320-350 (without documents); 350 -380; 420;

FOR COMBAT SERVICE 5; 7;

FOR COMBAT SERVICE (small suspension) 28-30; 35;

NAKHIMOV (from 200 without documents); 300; 350 (number > 12000)

FOR DISTINGUISHED LABOR 7; 8;

FOR A PARTISAN OF THE PATRIOTIC WAR, 1ST CLASS 90; 100

FOR A PARTISAN OF THE PATRIOTIC WAR, 2ND CLASS 60; 80; 90

DISTINCTION IN GUARDING THE STATE BORDER (neuzilber) 60-65; 60-70;

DISTINCTION IN GUARDING THE STATE BORDER (silver) 100; 120; 150

DISTINGUISHED MILITARY SERVICE, 1ST AND 2ND CLASS 50 & 40;

DISTINGUISHED SERVICE IN THE PRESERV.OF PUBLIC ORDER (neuzilber) 55-60; 60

DISTINGUISHED SERVICE IN THE PRESERV. OF PUBLIC ORDER (silver) 90-95; 100; 150

BRAVERY IN A FIRE (neuzilver) 60; 70; 70;

BRAVERY IN A FIRE (silver) 100; 120; 150;

SAVING LIFE FROM DROWNING 150; 150- 170; 160;

THE DEFENSE OF LENINGRAD 6; 10; 10;

THE DEFENSE OF MOSCOW 6; 10; 10

THE DEFENSE OF ODESSA 45; 100; 100;

THE DEFENSE OF SEVASTOPOL 45-50; 70-80; 85

THE DEFENSE OF STALINGRAD 6; 10; 10

THE DEFENSE OF KIEV 20; 25; 30;

THE DEFENSE OF THE CAUCASUS 6; 10; 10;

THE DEFENSE OF THE SOVIET POLAR REGIONS 25; 30

FOR VICTORY OVER GERMANY IN THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR, 1941-1945 from 3

30TH YEAR ANNIVERSARY IN THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR 1.5

40TH YEAR ANNIVERSARY IN THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR 1.5

VICTORY OVER JAPAN 6; 10; 10;

CAPTURE OF BUDAPEST 6; 12; 12;

CAPTURE OF KOENIGSBERG 6; 10; 10;

CAPTURE OF VIENNA 12; 15-18; 18;

CAPTURE OF BERLIN 6; 10; 10;

LIBERATION OF BELGRADE from 30; 60; 70;

LIBERATION OF WARSAW 6; 10; 10;

LIBERATION OF PRAGUE 10; 12 - 14; 16;

VALIANT LABOR IN THE GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR (1941-1945) 5; 5;

A VETERAN OF LABOR 1; 1.5;

VETERANS OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE USSR 4-5; 5;

FOR STRENGTHENING MILITARY COOPERATION not seen; 180; 170-180;

RESTORATION OF THE BLACK METAL ENTERPRISES from 30; 40; 40;

RESTORATION OF THE DONBASS COAL MINES 60; 70; 65;

DEVELOPMENT OF THE VIRGIN LANDS 20; 20 -25; 25;

CONSTRUCTION OF THE BAIKAL-AMUR RAILROAD 40; 40-50; 45;

DEVELOPMENT OF THE NON-BLACK EARTH REGION 55-60; 60-70; 100;

DEVEL. OF THE PETROCHEMICAL COMPLEX OF W. SIBERIA 55-60; 60-70; 200!!

20 YEARS OF THE WORKERS' AND PEASANTS' RED ARMY from 200; 220-250;

20 YEARS OF THE WORKERS' AND PEASANTS' RED ARMY (first type) 250-270; 300;

30 YEARS OF THE SOVIET ARMY AND NAVY 3; 3;

40 YEARS OE THE ARMED FORCES OF THE USSR 3; 5;

50 YEARS OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE USSR 1.5; 1.5;

60 YEARS OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE USSR 1.5 1.5;

70 YEARS OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE USSR 1.25; 1.25;

100TH YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF LENIN'S BIRTH 3; 3;

50 YEARS OF THE SOVIET MILITIA 5; 6=5;

800TH YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF MOSCOW 6; 7; 7;

250TH YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF LENINGRAD 6; 7; 7;

1500TH YEAR ANNIVERSARY OF KIEV 4; 7; 7;"

William

[Ed_Haynes]

William.

This is cruel. The Geneva Convention needs a whole dedicated article on such behavior.

Ouch.

[Elmar Lang]

...and I prefer not to remember the price (asked in Italy) of Soviet awards in the years 1989-1995, when many people was used to say "why collecting those horribly designed things?".

Enzo

[Ed_Haynes]

Perhaps, in Italy. If you look at the prices that were being asked back in the 1960s and 1970s for items that had had their serial numbers gouged out, things have seemed cheap, until now.

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

I mean that in the 80s-90s, the price asked in Italy for Soviet awards was very cheap.

On the opposite, I remember the prices asked in auction, back in the '70s, at a then famous auction house, based in Munich, Germany: those Soviet pieces were very expensive thanks to their rarity, due to the strict Soviet law. Of course, the Soviet crysis made those pieces enormously cheap, much cheaper that their actual rarity and/or historical value and importance.

In my opinion, the prices of today are not an expression of importance/rarity, they just express the desire of possess from people with no problems of cash. A similar situation happens with contemporary art and happened in the past with big buyers from the Middle East. But this is another story.

Best wishes,

Enzo

[Ed_Haynes]

OK, I now have the real Markov prices:

2216 - documented silver head - $150,000 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2216

2217 - silver head - $42,500 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2217

2218 - type 3 screwback - $17,000 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2218

2219 - type 3 screwback - $17,000 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2219

2220 - type 4 - $1,600 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2220

2221 - type 4b - $1,600 - http://www.sixbid.com/nav.php?p=viewlot&am...16&lot=2221

See http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=24118 for all prices, thanks Alex and William

Edited January 15, 2008 by Ed_Haynes

[Andwwils]

I am a novice when it comes to Soviet awards, but it seems to me that there are still some good values out there. Documents are an example. You can buy an order book without a picture in it for the Order of Lenin for 15 or 20 USD (maybe less). I mean, if you're in Soviet collecting for the history and history alone, having the Order Book should be as good as having the physical decoration, right?

Edited January 15, 2008 by Andwwils

[order_of_victory]

I am a novice when it comes to Soviet awards, but it seems to me that there are still some good values out there. Documents are an example. You can buy an order book without a picture in it for the Order of Lenin for 15 or 20 USD (maybe less). I mean, if you're in Soviet collecting for the history and history alone, having the Order Book should be as good as having the physical decoration, right?

Dam you have stumbled on my secret

But some docs can be worht a lot of money, like the ones for Partisan Medals

Order of Victory

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

The results of Dmitry Markov?s auction are now posted on his web page.

As the old poker game saying goes - ?Read ?em and weep?.

Regards,

Wild Card