Scott P Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Got out bid on this a little while ago on ebay.de.For me it looked real nice,and really would have liked to have won the auction.Again I ask the experts should I have gone a few euros more?Over 110 was too much for me.I really dont know what the better ribbon bars sell for.The medals for what I think they are.Bravery medal (gold or silver)?EK2MVO3 with swordsMVO4 with swordsBMVK3 with swords and crownFFfront Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott P Posted March 5, 2008 Author Share Posted March 5, 2008 (edited) backsidemfgScottalmost forgot my question,was this one good? Edited March 5, 2008 by Scott P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I've never seen THREE classes of 1914-18 Military Merit Crosses/Orders together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I've never seen THREE classes of 1914-18 Military Merit Crosses/Orders together.Darn!!!!! Where was I during all this? I missed it completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Good! That's TWO of you saved then. I wouldn't have bought this:Might be an ugly old original bar whose wearer-thought-he-could-wear-something-twice sort of a deal, but I would be deeply unhappy with THREE MVKs on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Good! That's TWO of you saved then. I wouldn't have bought this:Might be an ugly old original bar whose wearer-thought-he-could-wear-something-twice sort of a deal, but I would be deeply unhappy with THREE MVKs on there.Would two be the max? I'd like to have the length of ribbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schießplatzmeister Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 (edited) Hello Gentlemen:I saw this on Ebay.de also. I did not bid although I have rather a special interest in the Bavarian MVM/TKM. I have NEVER seen a recipient wear three (3) MVO/MVK ribbons. I suppose that such a thing could be possible (it would not be Official practice to wear three ribbons) if a recipient made-up a field ribbon bar for himself, but it is highly unlikely.The only thing that I have seen which is close is a recipient of the Gold MVM/TKM who received the MVK III with swords and crown who then received a field grade commission as a Leutnant. He went on to be awarded the MVO IV with swords. So, his ribbon bar would possibly have had the MVM/TKM ribbon, his EKII ribbon, his MVO IV ribbon with a silver swords device, his MVK ribbon with a bronze crown and swords device. He died in the 1920's. If he had survived to get his "Hindenburg" Cross with swords, the EKII ribbon would then be mounted in first position.A recipient would wear ribbons for ONLY the highest grade of the military (with swords) MVO received and the highest grade of the military ( with swords) MVK received. Three (3) such ribbons would NOT be worn.It WOULD be possible in my opinion to have two military MVO/MVK ribbons and one civilian MVK ribbon (but unlikely).In my opinion, the field ribbon bar was put together recently and was not ever worn by a recipient of these awards. I do not like the way that this piece was sewn together. It is rather crude looking. I would like to see the stitching under UV light (I imagine that it would glow).Be glad that you were outbid!Best regards,"SPM" Edited March 6, 2008 by Schie?platzmeister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 The only person I have seen with three MVOs with swords is Franz Ritter von Epp. He wore his 3rd Class with Crown and Swords awarded in 1914 for World War I, his 3rd Class with Swords (formerly Knight 1st Class) awarded in 1906 for Southwest Africa, and his 4th Class with Swords (formerly Knight 2nd Class) awarded in 1901 for China.Presumably, he interpreted the provisions of Article XI of the Statutes of the MVO - "Kriegs- und Friedensdekorationen werden nebeneinander, auch in verschiedenen Klassen, getragen." - to mean that war decorations from different wars could be worn together, and not just a peacetime non-swords award with a swords award. And probably no one was going to tell him he was wrong.In the higher grades, there was a provision for wearing multiple awards, but this wouldn't apply to a ribbon bar. A recipient of the Officer's Cross continued to wear his 3rd or 4th Class on the medal bar. If he received the 2nd Class, the 3rd or 4th Class was removed, but he continued to wear the Officer's Cross. If he received the Star to the 2nd Class, then he turned in the Officer's Cross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saschaw Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Presumably, he interpreted the provisions (...) to mean that war decorations from different wars could be worn together, and not just a peacetime non-swords award with a swords award. And probably no one was going to tell him he was wrong.From what I know, he wasn't wrong. But as I'm not too much into Bavarian system, could someone clearify, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Maybe he wasn't. I haven't seen a regulation that makes it any clearer, though. I have all the miscellaneous Bavarian regulations on decorations from the war, so I will check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I was reading with interest this thread and also confirm to have seen it on Ebay... but I never hesitated not to bid on it! Not for a single second... I wouldn't even touch with a 10 meters long pole... Such weird combinations I would only buy if there are documents which attests the correctness of the bar.Just my 2 cents.Ciao,Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 From what I know, he wasn't wrong. But as I'm not too much into Bavarian system, could someone clearify, please?You are right. Here is the Verordnung: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I have two photos of von Epp which illustrate this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 A close up of the ribbon bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Another photos of von Epp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Yes but his were from China and Southwest Africa and the World War-- not the case with the ribbon bar above. Old "Gottesmutter" was an exception to most rules! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Cole Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 Here's a cool picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 I guess the scary thing is that I would have over 800 ribbon bars that I have owned and/or sold over the years to pour through.... I couldn't find one example that breaks the only two grades rule... as an added tease, here's something to make you sigh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted March 6, 2008 Share Posted March 6, 2008 .. and the "whole enchilada"... as it were... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott P Posted March 8, 2008 Author Share Posted March 8, 2008 Thanks guys for the heads up.But also a question though.Take off the BMVK leave the rest, would that still be worth over a ?100?I did send the winner(?111) a message thru ebay that it was a fake. One thing that did strike me odd was that he was a private bidder, and he drove the price up. mfgScott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 8, 2008 Share Posted March 8, 2008 I would say no-- although my ideas of "retail" remain firmly fossilized in my Glory Days, the 1980s, when the DM was U.S. 29?-67?.And I am not sure that I would classify it exactly as "fake." It is messy enough to have been home made--but then or now, who knows and who cares to take the risk? It is certainly not CORRECT, either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I just couldn't get this one out of my head.... Now, mind you I'm not convinced at all that the ribbon bar is legit. Too messy, too convenient that the threads are black so they will not glow.... Just too much garbage in the marketplace these days for me to be comfortable with this bar...Having said all that........... I present to you from deep within my archives.... A photo I call..."The Naughty Bavarian"Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 A TRIPLE !!!!!!!!!!!Can it be made any larger and clearer? Obviously this Leutnant/Leutnant dR got BMVK3XmKr as an Uffz/FJ/OAsp, then BMVK2X as a Vzf/F?hnrich, and finally his BMV4X as a Lt/Lt dR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I just couldn't get this one out of my head.... Now, mind you I'm not convinced at all that the ribbon bar is legit. Too messy, too convenient that the threads are black so they will not glow.... Just too much garbage in the marketplace these days for me to be comfortable with this bar...Having said all that........... I present to you from deep within my archives.... A photo I call..."The Naughty Bavarian"Enjoy!Super protrait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I too was outbid on this fabulous ribbon bar. But, the recipient payed dearly.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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