Militär-Max-Joseph-Orden

[Guest Rick Research]

Christophe: MANY thanks. I don't know where you got the authorization dates from after the Personal Nachrichten ceased publication in 1920, but that helps a great deal, since even VPP slides over the "specifics" then-- fudging the fact that these post-monarchy bestowals were actually illegal, nudge nudge, wink wink.

If you can somehow get your list reformatted to list ALPHABETICALLY rather than CHRONOLOGICALLY that would

speed things up for the impatient

more than my tired eyes, aching neck, and stubby remnants of what used to be typing fingies

can accomplish in my own "spare" time.

In my version, I have (while trying to keep things to an outline One Line Each sort of BASIC listing) listed the THREE dates where known of "action date," bestowal date of the actual ORDER, and the often delayed enrollment in lifetime nobility, since during the interludes between dates two and three an officer might be WEARING the Order and yet technically still be a "commoner" because the Herald's Office hadn't come through yet. LATER German accounts quite understandably tend to refer to MMJO knights (when not incorrectly calling them "von Soundso" rather than "Ritter von Soundso" even back then) as if they were MMJO Knights right back to their action dates-- when in fact sometimes years went by and often the recipient was dead and had never used the title himself.

My short list also indicates those officers who were killed in action during WW1 (simply by YEAR to keep this "list" CONCISE) and who died (accidents rather than naturally so indicated) between the wars or to the end of WW2 as well. Since I already HAVE all of them, any question on any one of them individually can simply be addressed by ASKING ME about that specific recipient, rather than me adding exponentially to the size of the list by including every recipient's births and deaths dates, civilian occupations, WW2 ranks, awards and on and on and on...

which is what "Virtuti Pro Patria" in all its hundreds of pages already does, while "Bayerns Goldenes Buch" gives the full citation texts for their awards.

I believe Biblio Verlag has a reasonably priced reprint of BGB available. VPP, Roth's transcribed rolls for Autengruber, the Personal Nachrichten themselves, and BGB all give the complete and accurate listing of these knights already.

Trying to COMBINE and REORGANIZE (VPP alphabetized the Old Fashioned way with ? as if "oe" which throws the modern alphabetizing off, and for some printer's glitch reason, the Roth roll is also replete with waaay out of alphabetical place names, causing much backing and forthing and renumbering while pecking at the keyboard with 3 fingers) these into an outline list for those who do not have the expensive old works or new reprints is a considerable effort in time and energy, provided here as a FREE SERVICE in what will no doubt be downloaded and copy-pasted by many people in 27 seconds without a second thought to the long hours it took/is taking Christophe and me to DO IT ALL. It is not a simple job TO DO, no matter how easy to USE the final product ends up being.

[Bob Hunter]

I have been following this thread with interest and wanted to commend Rick and Christophe for their research skills. Both of you are exceptional resources for this forum. Thanks!

[Deruelle]

Thanks for your comments. I have reformated my list and those who want it can send me a pm with their email and I will send it. Good research

Regards

Christophe

[Dave Danner]

Trivia:

What Ritter of the MMJO is also a Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire?

[Stogieman]

Rick, Christophe.... thanks for all your work here!

[Guest Rick Research]

The alphabetical outline list with all dates, Pour Le Merites, posthumous and postwar bestowals noted is now (after many hours of work COMPLETE.

[Bob Hunter]

I just went back through this thread and came across Stogieman's first post. Does anyone know why Manfred vonRichtofen was refused this award?

[W McSwiggan]

Per O'Connor - typically - the Prussians and the Bavarians were squabbling and this amounted to a quid pro quo.

There was a fair amount of petty bickering between the two lead states of the empire and this was one result.

I just went back through this thread and came across Stogieman's first post. Does anyone know why Manfred vonRichtofen was refused this award?

[W McSwiggan]

Rick - thank you for all your labor on this - I will enjoy referring to this act of generosity for a long time. Christophe's listings also greatly appreciated. Thanks to you both!

Dam still holding???

Think Uxbridge cancelled school today due to flooding issues.

[Bob Hunter]

I guess there is no way to escape the pettiness that often accompanies politics.

[Dave Danner]

So no one has an answer to my trivia question?

Here is the current status of the on-line list of recipients. Like the MKFVO list, I am still filling in information, including links to sites with biographical information where available.

Recipients of the Militär-Max-Joseph-Orden

I will also add a glossary to explain the various abbreviations for ranks and units, as well as clean them up (to make clear, for example, that Bavarian regiments are the ones identified, not similarly numbered Prussian ones).

Edited November 1, 2023 by Dave Danner
fix diacritic

[Deruelle]

Hi Dave,

If youwant I can send to more info about officers who received the MMJO. I'm still woriking on it. For some officers I have in my data all of their awards. Let me know.

Regards

Christophe

[Dave Danner]

Thanks, Christophe. And thanks again to Rick for his tireless labor.

Here is the list as it currently stands: http://home.att.net/~ordersandmedals/MMJO.htm

I have added in most dates, though there are gaps. I put in links to sites with biographical information where known. I also started adding in the Commander's Crosses, though there are gaps.

Dave

[Chris Boonzaier]

I vaguely rememember reading that 3 winners were killed by a single artillery shell in 1917-18, but have not been able to find the passgae again.... can anyone confirm this?

Thanks

Chris

[Dave Danner]

This thread? http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/5409-3-ritters-then-no-more-ritters

[Chris Boonzaier]

Thanks,

I had forgotten that thread.

Bloody gunner earned his pay that day....

[Chris Boonzaier]

I just received this today.... maybe the highest decorated of any officers at Regimental level and below....

[Glenn J]

Chris,

Ritter von Steiner?

Regards

Glenn

[Chris Boonzaier]

Bingo....

Other than in the small BIO, I have never seen pics of him... by coincidence I got 3-4 pages from an officers photo album... He is in 3 group photos... a rare find... higher ranks are easier to find, a lt is difficult...

[Schießplatzmeister]

Congratulations Chris!

A very nice photo of Ritter von Steiner.  I would love to see the other photos too.

Best regards,

[Deruelle]

Hi Chris

Here is a link which may interest you

https://www.omsa.org/joseph-ritter-von-steiner/

 

Christophe

[VtwinVince]

Getting back to Richthofen, many writers have claimed that he was declined for the MMJO due to being a non-Bavarian, but of course this is nonsense when one reviews other recipients.

[Chris Boonzaier]

2 hours ago, Deruelle said:

Hi Chris

Here is a link which may interest you

https://www.omsa.org/joseph-ritter-von-steiner/

 

Christophe

Wow... that guy kills it... he must have part of the nachlass? Does anyone know who the author is?