Civilian mini medal bar

[Noor]

Hi,

After period of time, well traveled mini medal bar came back to my home!

Maybe you guys have some more information about the awards on it and help me again to "read it".

First at all, it is pitty that the imperial Russia St.Anne order is missing on it but there is nothing to do. If you see one on sale somewhere, what would suite here, please let me know.

1. Golden Medal of Württemberg Friedrich Order (? ? ?)

2. Württemberg Civilian Merit Medal

3. Württemberg Long Service Cross (15 years?)

4. Imperial Russia St.Anne Order

5. 1870/71 Franco-Prussian War Noncombatants Medal

6. 1897 Centenary Medal

Can you guys plase confirm first medal correct name? Also I am not sure about the Long Service Cross - how many years service this cross indicate?

On the St.Anne's ribbon, there was actually as well one of very very nice replacement - pfennig!

[saschaw]

Ah, now in Dublin? Okay... nice bar!

I'd leave this Pfennig on it. It's been there for some or many years, maybe even from WW1 on when one though Russian awards are not that pretty anymore. ;o)

[Wild Card]

Hello Noor,

Yes, that is a merit medal to the Friedrichs Order. Please be aware that (1) this medal came only in “gold” and (2) they were gold plate.

I do not think that there were any actual gold (as we know it) medals awarded.

Also, #4 might turn out to be something other than a Russian St. Anna. Let’s see what the more knowledgeable members say.

Nice bar!

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[P.F.]

Timo,

Lovely piece, congrats!

As for the 4th ribbon...not sure if any of these fit this combination but they do fit the ribbon:

-Baden Landwehr Service Decoration (1912)

-Brunswick Order of Henry the Lion

-Brunswick Cross of Merit (1879)

-Lippe Medal of Merit (1832)

Kind regards

Pierce

[saschaw]

I think a Russian award (but there migth match several)is most likely here.

The long service award is a Dienstehrenzeichen 2nd class, awarded to NCOs for 21 years of service. Here with "K" for King Karl as awarded between 1864 and 1891. That's a scarce one!

[Noor]

Thats great information Sascha! But what can be the reason, why the owner got noncombatants Franco-Prussian war medal and also main Württemberg awards are civilians? Some weird army linked job - Beamter?

St.Anne ribbon shows most likely St.Anne award as well. Medal for Zeal, etc came usually with the St.Stanislaus ribbon.

[Wild Card]

Timo,

Lovely piece, congrats!

As for the 4th ribbon...not sure if any of these fit this combination but they do fit the ribbon:

-Baden Landwehr Service Decoration (1912)

-Brunswick Order of Henry the Lion

-Brunswick Cross of Merit (1879)

-Lippe Medal of Merit (1832)

Kind regards

Pierce

I think that we can eliminate the two Brunswick decorations -

the yellow stripes are too narrow.

[Wild Card]

A St. Anna (3rd class) might be a bit high.

I would consider one of these.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Wild Card

[VtwinVince]

Hi Timo,

That one looks vaguely familiar....I'm glad it's back with you again, it is indeed a much-travelled spange.

[Noor]

Thanks guys all of your help and replays!

Few more questions:

1. How many times Württemberg Friedrich Order Medal was awarded during this period (aprox 1870-1914)?

Is any materials/lists exist about that medal? I presume it is not most common one.

2. Like I understand Württemberg is not very well researched?

Haven't heard much about the research potential about this State. Of course my bar is some kind ex NCO anyway.

3. Any idea or quess about the owner's position/work?

Like I understand now, he was in the Army as a career NCO (Long Service cross - thanks Sascha for clarification! ). Meantime looks like (or am I wrong), he wasn't involved directly to the Franco Prussian war because the noncombatant Franco-Prussian war medal.

Meantime he probably had some kind a weird government work, etc. Also pointing out that he had more likely civilian role, shows Württemberg Civil Merit Medal and later on 1897 Centenary Medal.

Now, the Imperial Russian ribbon..... like I understand, two last medals from Prussia is there because owner of this set considered Prussia as a "foreign" as well. Probably was more common 19 century? Now, to keep the awards "in order" on the bar, then orders should be first. So, I think it was put together this way:

1. Württemberg awards

2. "Foreign" order

3. "Foreign" German States

Most common Russian award on St.Anne's ribbon was Medal for Zeal but it came more "popular" after Nikolai II coronation (26th May 1896). Again, almost after that point, Prussian awards should "move" front of the St.Anne ribbon. As well military awards or awards for Army personell was awarded mainly with the St.Stanislaus ribbon, so it can't be anything from earliest service period.

It is my few ideas but as I said before - I can be wrong in this point.

If some more experienced collector can approve something else, I would love to hear it. At the moment I quess that this should be St.Anne order for Württemberger as a civil award.

[Deruelle]

Hi Timo,

Great find you have made here. A very lovely medal bar.

I think you should ask to Daniel Krause, who is the specialist of Kingdom of Wurttemberg, about your questions.

Christophe

[Noor]

Does anyone have some more ideas please

[Freiwillige]

Just to update and revive discussion 

Portrait was initially posted here and kindly identified by ixhs as former Vizewachtmeister Berckhemer from the Dragoner-Regiment König (2.Württembergisches) Nr.26.  

Decorations:

1. Wurttemberg. Verdienstmedaille des Friedrichs-Ordens

2. Wurttemberg. Silberne Militärverdienstmedaille oder Zivilverdienstmedaille (???) ---> Help needed!!!

3. Wurttemberg. Militär-Dienstehrenzeichen 2.Klasse

4. Prussia. Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870/71 für Kämpfer

5. Russia. Imperial Order of Saint Anna, 4th class

6. Prussia. Zentenarmedaille

 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Freiwillige

[Komtur]

Nice find indeed

[Freiwillige]

Thanks!

Any ideas on the 2nd and 3rd decorations  worn by the veteran from my photo?

[Freiwillige]

Any ideas, gentlemen? 

[saschaw]

On 30/03/2019 at 22:07, Freiwillige said:

Any ideas on the 2nd and 3rd decorations  worn by the veteran from my photo?

I'd say you are spot on with the long service decoration. The medal on #2 has to be a civil merit medal in silver, as the military merit medal, back in that era, would have a plain dark blue ribbon. Also, I'd assume it would outrank the merit medal of the Friedrichsorden.

Can we be sure the photo and the miniature medal bar once belonged to the same person? I don't think so, as the combination is, I'd guess, not necessarily unique. But it is scarce, and chances are they do make a set. A great addition to this thread for sure!

[saschaw]

On 29/03/2019 at 20:03, Freiwillige said:

4. Prussia. Kriegsdenkmünze für die Feldzüge 1870/71 für Kämpfer

That could well be the steel medal on combatant ribbon, awarded to 341,949 military personnel that stayed in Germany during the Franco-Prussian war - and as it is to be seen on the miniature medal bar...

Looking at it once again, I think chances are pretty high those did use belong together...

Edited April 7, 2020 by saschaw

[ixhs]

I'd say you are spot on with the long service decoration. The medal on #2 has to be a civil merit medal in silver, as the military merit medal, back in that era, would have a plain dark blue ribbon. Also, I'd assume it would outrank the merit medal of the Friedrichsorden.

Can we be sure the photo and the miniature medal bar once belonged to the same person? I don't think so, as the combination is, I'd guess, not necessarily unique. But it is scarce, and chances are they do make a set. A great addition to this thread for sure!

 

I agree # 3 is imo a Dienstehrenzeichen.

[Freiwillige]

Many thanks for your comments, gentlemen!

Identification of that vet is still needed...