Bulgaria FAKE BULGARIAN ORDERS ON THE MARKET

[ilieff]

Apart from orders, fakers are also doing medals (from the rare or mid-rare range). Look at these two examples which were being offerred in a Bulgarian online auction.

[paul wood]

Ilieff I am surprised they passed muster they shouldn't fool any serious collector.

Paul

[Graf]

That is a problem,

.

 

Till very recently the fakers 's focus was the high end items.

Now obviously they are going to low level items.

I hope they will not mass produce them I have heard that there is an online Auction site in Bulgaria which is only for the local market  ...and that there are many fakes offered there as originals

In September i went to Sofia, as part of trip to the Balkans.

I went to the market around St. Alexander Nevski Cathedral, because i had been told that there they sell Militaria.

 

i was not very impressed, because the items on offer were mainly very cheaply made reproductions, that cannot fool any collector.

Well , we have to keep our eyes wide open.

 

Graf

[ilieff]

Yet another one.

In the product description it's mentioned that there have been minor repairs to the enamel.

[new world]

Copy of early St Alexander star 1st class.

Was sold last year as a copy.

 

[new world]

fake Bravery

reverse of fake Bravery

more...

[V.Vazov]

Hi new world,

I wonder if this is a fake or a low quality republican emission of the order.

We know that during the second phase of WWII they've started to produce the bravery orders locally and their quality have significantly fallen.

What do you think?

Best,

Vazov

[922F]

New World,  Could you determine whether this lst class has hard or soft enamel??   Don't recall ever seeing such pitting as on the reverse. 

[V.Vazov]

Hi 922F,

I think that what we see is not a 1 grade but a 3 grade 1 class of republican emission (fake or real).

Best,

Vazov

[922F]

Yes, I misspoke, I intended  lst class of 3rd degree

[new world]

@Vazov:

Look at the quality of this item, it's very low for such high-level award.

@922F:

I don't own this award, so can't answer your question about hard/soft enamel.

 

 

[Graf]

In my opinion New Word is correct.

It is Fake. The overall quality is extremely  poor for a very high class decoration. The combination of new looking poor quality decoration is an alarm bell ringing loudly

It is known that  after 1944 for the high classes "left overs" from mainly  the emission with the 3 dots were used  Only decorations for 4th class 1st Grade and 2nd Grade were made after the War

The high Classes were modified to fit the new regulations by replacing/modifying the central medallions and removing or replacing the crown with a wreath In some cases orders from the 7 dots emission were used and adapted

I remember  that the sellers  who used to sell on Ebay Fake Bulgarian decorations from the regency and the Republican periods used  for excuse for their poor quality the fact that they were made in private Bulgarian shops

Do not be fooled . In some cases we have to make our mind only by looking the pictures and we will not have  chance to return the Decorations if we discover that their fake. If in doubt keep away

 

 

 

[ilieff]

I agree with Graf that it's the first impression that's the key.

The third class first grade shown above is obviously a fake though I admire the time and effort which fakers put into their Frankensteins. I hope that no collectors purchase these items. 

Unfortunately, a certain number of these fakers are probably reading forums too, so I'd suggest that we don't give them any more details as to how they can improve their 'work'.

Fingers crossed!

[Graf]

Hi Ilieff,

 

It is most important to warn the collectors.

The Fakers will master their jobs, however if they have to deal with educated public it will make their task very difficult

..and may discourage them Hopefully.

The WW2  German Iron Cross is the most faked one. There are several books how do detect fakes, which help the collectors and fakes alike. However, once the collectors are more knowledgeable they are more difficult to be tricked.

That is why i started rhis Forum to help the new collectors of Bulgarian Orders and decorations to avoid mine and other "old' collectors mistakes

 

Yes, , Fingers crossed eyes open

[new world]

On 3/23/2017 at 06:44, new world said:

fake Bravery

 

reverse of fake Bravery

 

Actually, this same fake Bravery was discussed an one of the forums back in 2008. I was able to find photos from 2008. Photos are not as good as the ones I posted couple days ago, but you can still see it's the same cross... 

[new world]

Fake 4th class 1st grade Bravery.

Was selling by the same person as fake 3rd class from previous post. Apparently was made by the same faker.

 

[paul wood]

Thank god they are still pretty horrible.

Paul

[new world]

On 4/4/2017 at 09:42, paul wood said:

Thank god they are still pretty horrible.

Paul

well, these fakes were from 9 years ago, they are probably much better now

[Graf]

Alert Two Fakes on Ebay

First is 1st Class Star of the Order of Military Merit with War Decoration

Very well known Fake with soft enamel plus the letters are very thin and superficial -already are 'fading away'

You can see the defects in the enamel as well

I also suspect that the last picture of the reverse is borrowed from somewhere else

 

Second is  2nd Class Star of the same Order

It is a shocker - especially the reverse The Fakers even included French hallmarks and maker marks - all wrong

The seller is from Hungary He claims that they come from his personal collection. No detailed description of the items

No returns Warning signs that he is aware of the nature of the Stars looked his history -not a single Order sold or bought before this sale ???!!!

[new world]

the reverse of the 2nd class is especially hideous! In all my years collecting I've never seen such marks and such bad quality if the reverse.

 

Front looks decent though.

Edited May 1, 2017 by new world

[Graf]

Hi

Yes That i said is a shocker The marks from left to right are supposed to be a French maker mark,, French hallmark for Silver "boar head" and the 950 mark is not supposed to be there at all  -all are wrong

I suspect the front looks decent because they might some original parts or copied them very good.

What is your opinion for the picture of the reverse of the 1st Class Star I still think it was borrowed from somewhere else It does not match the firs pictures...also It look quite familiar to me I might have seen it somewhere else

I sent a mail to the seller to advise the potential buyers So far he has not answered, neither he added any additional notes

He knows what he is doing, that is why he did not specify that the Stars are Original. Plus the details are next to nothing. There are already bidders Poor Suckers

[new world]

Pics for 1st class reverse are blurry, it's impossible to tell anything from them. I don't like front pics of the 1st class though.

Of course it's preferable to hold this star in hand and inspect it carefully, however most of the times we don't have such luxury. Based on the troubling signs seen in the pics it's better to stay away from this seller.

[nickstrenk]

I hope,collegues from Bulgaria will advise.Is it original or fake?Probably unawarded?

Edited May 1, 2017 by nickstrenk

[Binky]

16 hours ago, Graf said:

Hi

Yes That i said is a shocker The marks from left to right are supposed to be a French maker mark,, French hallmark for Silver "boar head" and the 950 mark is not supposed to be there at all  -all are wrong

I suspect the front looks decent because they might some original parts or copied them very good.

What is your opinion for the picture of the reverse of the 1st Class Star I still think it was borrowed from somewhere else It does not match the firs pictures...also It look quite familiar to me I might have seen it somewhere else

I sent a mail to the seller to advise the potential buyers So far he has not answered, neither he added any additional notes

He knows what he is doing, that is why he did not specify that the Stars are Original. Plus the details are next to nothing. There are already bidders Poor Suckers

I contacted the seller via eBay and got the following response:

It is your right to express your opinion. The stars have been restored and that's why they look like this. I see you have doubts about the stars and you do not need to bid in the auction

Wouldn't dream of bidding in the auction! This is rather concerning.

 

[Graf]

Hi Binky,

Who ever is the seller he or She has to advice the potential buyers about the changes to the Stars

It is blunt wrong not to let the buyers about any alterations As collector we have to be honest with our fellow collectors

I recently sold 3rd Class 2nd Grade Bravery order i described it including any repairs.. That I felt is the correct action. The Buyer form Ukraine re sold it with asmal profit without mentioning the repairs It is wrong.

Regarding the 1st Class Star if you are the seller please test the enamel  it looks modern soft one and the anorexic letters are typical of the modern copies Also the murky picture on the reverse, compared with the relatively good ones of the obverse brings more doubt about the Star

The 2nd Class -I already expressed my opinion

I would never bid on such item. I had my bad experience as beginner and that is why i started this forum to help the fellow collectors to avoid my mistakes, especially the beginners

 

Graf

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by Graf