EK 1939 Floch advice

[Tony]

Hello,

I?m hoping some of you can help me out here.

I can?t tell the difference between a good cross (1st or 2nd class) and a Floch. What should I or anyone else who can?t spot them look out for? What are the characteristics of a Floch?

I only own 1 WWII EKI which is pictured below, most people have told me it?s original and I hope that is true because it wasn?t cheap (depending on which part of the world you live).

Tony

[Tony]

Here's the reverse.

Which maker marks does Floch use?

[Laurence Strong]

Floch Stuff

[Laurence Strong]

More Floch stuff

[Laurence Strong]

More yet

Edited April 17, 2005 by Laurence Strong

[Dave B]

As I said in my email Tony,common to all Floch's is the "loose bottom" 3.

Nice one Laurence wub.gif

Dave

[Laurence Strong]

Note the low placement of the date, and the characteristics of the Pin, I think you are Ok, and I am sure that Jim and Darrell will be in later today

[Dave B]

Yours was made by Paul Meybauer Tony,it looks fine to me mate.

Dave

[Tony]

Thanks for the comments so far.

I can't see any difference between the 3 on the Floch and a normal one though. Then again, does anybody remember the ugly EKII with the die flaw I had a month or 2 back? That had a different sort of 3 and I couldn't see any difference in that and the normal 3.

The way I see it, if I keep away from a low 1939 I should be ok? I can tell those cheap Latvian crosses though.

I think if I buy another 39 EK1 I'll have to go out shopping with someone big and mean looking who now somehow seems to be gaining a soft spot for sailors.

Tony

[Gordon Williamson]

Tony,

No worries on your EK1, it's a good piece.

[J Temple-West]

One small point.. Low numbers are not always a good indicator of 'Floch' fakes.

Examples by W&L, stamped 100, also have this characteristic.

[Nick]

Nice montage Laurence

John you have made a very good point re the positioning of the date.

[Laurence Strong]

Yes John, I was not aware of that either! Up to this point my main interest has been the KvK, but am about to enter the EK field this summer.

Thanks to all for the kind words, and feel free to down load the photo's they are from a thread in a different forum (some of you will recognize), and they were there for people to use as a tool to stop the purchase of those vile Floch medals.

[Jim Baker]

Well, just rolled in here Tony. Great thread. Looks like all has been covered.

Great work on the research and photos Larry!!

[David Gregory]

Here are some more details of a Floch 1939 EK1.

[David Gregory]

The back:

[David Gregory]

Hinge details:

[David Gregory]

Catch details:

[attachmentid=13334]

[attachmentid=13335]

[David Gregory]

The date has suffered from the rust that seems to have been "added" as ageing.

[attachmentid=13336]

This oblique view shows the paint finish better. Before I was informed that this cross is a fake, and I assume it is a Floch, I offered to trade it for some Imperial awards at a show in Germany. The only reason the deal did not take place is because I could not agree on acceptable trade with the dealer. He certainly seemed convinced that it was good, but was equally convinced his Imperial awards were worth much more than the buying price for a 1939 EK1. Never mind.

[attachmentid=13337]

If anyone wants it as an example of a Floch cross, I am still interested in trading it for Imperial items. I apologise if this is the wrong place to offer it for trade and ask for the post to be edited appropriately if necessary.

David

[joe campbell]

nice to see this subject come back up!

thanks, david, for your additional pictures.

in post #6, does the "loose three"

mean that the lower opening on the

3 is "more open" than the standard or real crosses?

a matter of semantics, but i'd like to understand

the point.

my thanks!

joe

[CRBeery]

There is something important that I keep brining up on other forums and it keeps getting left out of the next conversation. Picture in post #7 is mine taken from WAF. I did not have a good camera or software back then but I am trying to show a detail of the pin. There is a little flaw on the shoulder of the pin - an indent. It is not on all Flock fakes. It is important because this same flaw is on the fake Flock KVK 1s and on the L/14 Gold Wound Badges. This common pin ties all of those old fakes to the same source. David has posted the first cross in probably 50 where the flaw is on the right side of the pin (soldered on backwards) not the left as I have always found. Look at the others posted and you will see a pattern. My cross came from the big ad that was and may still be in the front of the Military Trader.

[Motorhead]

Here's another "textbook" Floch(in the meaning of the word... )

Obverse

[Motorhead]

Reverse

[Bill Garvy]

Always helpful to keep abreast of Herr Floch's examples! Thank you, gentlemen! Edited November 22, 2005 by Bill Garvy

[Daniel Murphy]

I think that Mr. Floch should be stood up against a wall and be stoned with all of the fakes he has perpetrated on the hapless collector over the years. Yea, got me too.

Dan Murphy