pinpon590 Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 (edited) Hi gentlemen ! Here is my last acquisition... A very nice 2nd class with X and crown knight cross, hessian order of Philip... I will do better pictures this evening ! All information about number of awards, well-known receiver are welcome ! Enjoy ! Edited April 27, 2013 by pinpon590 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Very nice. I know who will be interested in this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Boonzaier Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 One of the nicer looking pieces! Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccj Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Beautiful, I've always wanted one for my collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinpon590 Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Hi ! Here are more pictures : :love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinpon590 Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Close up : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deruelle Posted April 27, 2013 Share Posted April 27, 2013 Hi Jean-Baptiste, Very nice cross you have there. Is there an hallmark on it ? Congrats for your purchase. Christophe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinpon590 Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Hi ! Thank you ! It seems to have 2 hallmarks on the ring (on the top of the crown), but they're illegilble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Sadly I do not have access to Nimmergut’s multi-volume set that might shed more light. In my library – the only source of information on this order is O’Connor – volume VII. He stated that the order was created on 1 May, 1840 and continued until the armistice in 1918. Swords were added in 1849. Knight’s cross grade was divided into 1st & 2nd class in 1859. Per O’Connor prior to WWI the award was liberally awarded without swords. Swords awards were rare limited to the war of 1870 & colonial service (on active duty on May 6, 1914 there were only 40 officers holding the order with swords). Post war publications showed one knight’s 1st class to an admiral and one knight’s 1st class to a marine infantry Oberleutnant Heinrich Betz. O’Connor could find no sources for Army awards. O’Connor was confident that few (“Only a handful”) Army Swords awards were made. He sites the Reichsheer rank list of 1924 and Navy list of 1926 showing 2 and 0 swords awards respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rujab Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Hallo Pinpon Congratulations , then you got it yes. It seems to have 2 hallmarks on the ring (on the top of the crown), but they're illegilble... If it is gemarket ?? It is a French Production no German but still wonderful Rudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rujab Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 In the hessian order list from 1909 listed 166 Awards named rudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W McSwiggan Posted April 28, 2013 Share Posted April 28, 2013 Rudi - was that all awards of this class or just with swords? In the hessian order list from 1909 listed 166 Awards named rudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rujab Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 Rudi - was that all awards of this class or just with swords? only for swords rudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinpon590 Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 (edited) Hi ! It come from an old (40 years ago) auction... Here are close up of of the stamp (?) : Reverse : 2 marks... On the obverse : It seems it comes originally from Germany, but I will ask the dealer... Maybe french guarantee stamp ? But it doesn't look like any french stamp I have ever seen... It seems to be the same mark on the crown ring : Edited April 29, 2013 by pinpon590 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rujab Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 i know only in french and russian stamp rudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rujab Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 sorry i make a mistake 166 with swords but without crown !!! in the list of 1909 there are 5 Awards 4 for Russian 1 for Hess-Civil Person rudi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted April 29, 2013 Share Posted April 29, 2013 In the 1914 GHzgl. Hess. Ordensliste there is only one: Karl Rolshausen, Hofkammerrat a.D. in Darmstadt (HP3bKrX am 31.10.1884) There were three in the 1909 Deutscher Ordens-Almanach. One was Rolshausen above. One was Maj.z.D. Eugen Fink, Bez.Offz. beim Ldw.Bez. I Darmstadt, who died on 16 May 1911. The third was Friedrich Neßling, Hofkammerrat in Darmstadt. His HP3bKrX is not in the 1914 Ordensliste. He received the HP3aKr on 3 June 1908. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinpon590 Posted April 29, 2013 Author Share Posted April 29, 2013 (edited) Hi thank you for all comments and informations ! It must have quite a lot (proportionally speaking) of HP3bKrX awarded during WW1 I think ? Edited April 29, 2013 by pinpon590 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paris Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Der Hersteller war Zimmermann aus Pforzheim. Kein Ausländer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Danner Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 Hi thank you for all comments and informations ! It must have quite a lot (proportionally speaking) of HP3bKrX awarded during WW1 I think ? No. During World War I, Hessen-Darmstadt awarded its other decorations for war merit: • Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen, "Für Tapferkeit" - for bravery • Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen, "Für Kriegsverdienste" - for war merit • Krieger-Ehrenzeichen in Eisen - pinback badge for repeated acts of bravery • Militär-Sanitäts-Kreuz am Bande des Allgemeinen Ehrenzeichen, "Für Tapferkeit" - for bravery and war merit by medical personnel • Militär-Sanitäts-Kreuz (am statuten Bande) - for other war merit by medical personnel • Kriegsehrenzeichen - for merit and meritorious service on the homefront There is little evidence of more than a handful of awards in World War I. No wartime award records of Hessen-Darmstadt survived World War II, but secondary sources show awards of the Philipps-Orden with swords to be almost non-existent. According to Neal O'Connor's research, only one wartime award shows up in a post-war ranklist and only one award shows up in a wartime navy ranklist (and it may have been for colonial action right at the beginning of the war). I have not encountered a single award among the records of myriad Hessian officers whose personnel files I have reviewed, many of whom have multiple other Hessian awards. I also have not yet encountered a single award with swords gazetted or reported in the Darmstädter Zeitung or other journals, or mentioned in dozens of Todesanzeigen for otherwise well-decorated Hessian officer casualties. Since the primary sources are gone and the secondary sources are incomplete, there is always a chance of finding other WW1 awards, so we can't say with certainty. But I would say the number is inconsequential compared with the total number of awards prior to 1914. Regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinpon590 Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 Thank you for these explanation ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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