Ribbon bar from tunic shown in book

[ccj]

What do you guys think about this bar?

 

[Deruelle]

Hi Charles

It seems to be an 1870 ribbon bar to an officer who served after in WW1. It is strange that he is not wearing the Wurttemberg long service ribbon. Why he wears the Prussian REO ther? For me this ribbon should be after the commemorative ribbon of 1870-71.

Do you know the owner of this ribbon bar ?

Christophe

[GdC26]

The pic is not from a book, it ifs from Helmut Weitze's site: https://www.weitze.net/militaria/60/Wuerttemberg_Feldbluse_M_1910_fuer_einen_Generalmajor__358660.html. As the description mentions, the tunic (including, from memory, the ribbon bar) are featured in Baldwin and Fisher's field grey book, which shows pieces that mostly come out of the well documented, beautiful and very extensive Marshall V. Daut collection. A bit of a coy way to ask a question ....

Sandro 

[GdC26]

7 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

So... the Wuerttemberg Silver Merit Cross with Swords, which was instituted in 1915 for senior NCOs, was awarded to a soldier who also received the Wuerttemberg Military Merit Order, the Berthold Order, the Franz Josef Order, and the Friedrich Order during the war ??  He was an NCO in 1915 (???) and subsequently promoted to officer when he received these high honors ??? 

 He received the very prestigious Red Eagle Order with Bow on the Ribbon during peacetime, presumably before WW1, which actually occupies the wrong place on the bar as Deruelle already pointed out. 

Frankly, I don't have a very good feeling about this bar. 

You mention this is a bar from a picture of a tunic in a book.  Sometimes uniform collectors have bars made to order because they don't want to spend big money for a prop.  Could this be one of those? Simi. 

 

 

Simi, I hink you're right that the bar may have been made for collector purposes (and think so mostly because of the strange combination of decorations and the order in which they are mounted, an issue also flagged by Christophe) but why the Silver Merit cross with swords?

I "read" the bar as: 

- EK II with 1914 Spange

- WMVO knightscross;

- Württemberg Friedrichsorden, knights cross (presumably 1st class) with swords;

- Orden der Württembergische Krone, knights cross with swords (which I thought came before the WFO);

-  Baden, Orden Berthold des Ersten with Swords (?), which if correctly identified, I would expect to come after the PROA3mS

- PROA3mS, which strikes me as an unusual award for a Württemberg senior officer;

-Osterreich, Goldenes Verdienstkreuz mit Krone (again unusual on a foreign bar - I would expect an FJO or given rank, ÖEK);

-as Christophe noted, commemorative ribbon of 1870-71

- Zentenarmedaille;

_ Chinadenkmünze

- Kolonialdenkmünze

 

Charles, have you asked Helmut for his views of the bar (not exactly the thing of highest value in this particular offering), or for pics of the back?

7 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

.

 

[Daniel Krause]

Holy sh...

Thats definetly a fake.

Completely impossible combination.

 

Best,

Daniel

[GdC26]

Daniel, 

Do you agree with the ID of the combo set out above?  

Best, 

Sandro

Edited July 19, 2020 by GdC26

[Deruelle]

Hi Sandro

A little mistake with the REO. it is with crown and bow not S for swords ?

Christophe

 

[GdC26]

4 minutes ago, Deruelle said:

Hi Sandro

A little mistake with the REO. it is with crown and bow not S for swords ?

Christophe

 

Thanks Christophe, I used the "S" to denote Schleife (and ignored the crown), but forgot that it was used for Schwerter. My bad. 

Cheers, Sandro

[GdC26]

18 minutes ago, Simius Rex said:

Hi Sandro,  not that it matters because the bar is not genuine, but the fourth ribbon represents the Wuerttemberg Silver Merit Cross with Swords on account of the thin black stripe in the middle.  In other words, it's not the Order of the Crown.  They should have used silver swords to represent the combattant version of the Silver Merit Cross.

I began my post by mentioning the unlikelihood of this NCO's award (instituted in 1915) being next to 3 officer's awards from Wuerttemberg and the Red Eagle Order.  For me, this one award is what makes absolutely no sense on the bar.  In my opinion, and with a little imagination, you could logically explain the rest of the ribbons by simply assuming the assembler placed the RAO and the Austrian Merit Cross in the wrong position. Cheers, Simi.   

Thanks Simi, I've learned something. Cheers, Sandro

[VtwinVince]

I don't think we even need to see the reverse of this monstrosity.

[webr55]

Someone's been trying to put as many fancy looking (original) devices on one bar... 

[ccj]

It’s not my bar. As stated, it’s on a tunic listed on Weitze’s site and shown in Baldwin and Fisher’s book. I don’t like the bar and it’s always annoyed me to be honest. I wish it had been removed for the book and it needs to be tossed.

im not sure what to think of the tunic as it appears the shoulders once held sewn in boards but now sport boards that are sewn down. I’m not saying the tunic isn’t a real generals tunic but... I do like the collar tabs