Thoughts on this veteran

[Wyomingguy]

I acquired this image some years ago. What fascinates me beyond his service (and I would be curious as to a read on his service based upon his medals) is that the photograph bears the imprinted logo " Henry D. Schocrry/43 Avenue A/New York."  I suspect the subject was an immigrant to the United States and had this image made of him wearing his European medals. It is not the first example of a former Imperial soldier wearing his medals taken by an American photographer that I have and they fascinate me. 

[David M]

So what medals do we see here?

[graham]

I hope this is a start. From left to right:

1. War Commemorative Medal of 1870/71

2. Kaiser Wilhelm Memorial Medal(Centenary Medal)

3. Prussian Regimental Honour Cross

4. ?

5. ?

And a Prussian Landwehr Long Service Award is below medals 3 and 4.

[laurentius]

7 hours ago, Wyomingguy said:

I suspect the subject was an immigrant to the United States

This is a likely scenario, however, it is also possible that he was travelling through the US and had a picture taken along the way. Given his appearance (shaved, well-maintained moustache, nice tie, good suit) he might be a travelling salesman or business associate. This picture was presumably taken thirty years after he served so it wouldn't surprise me if he had gone up the corporate ladder.

Kind regards, Laurentius

[Eric Stahlhut]

up until ww1 there were lots of german veteran associations all over the united states

click on the arrow in the square to view

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Eric Stahlhut

[Wyomingguy]

Thank you all. I will share two other images of Imperial veterans living in the United States I lean towards these being worn as part of friendship societies in the pre World War One era. They seem to turn up in cities where there was a sizable German population. 

This handsome devil was photographed in Newark, NJ. 

[Eric Stahlhut]

these portraits are superb, and i hope that over time more images of german-american veterans of the franco-prussian war are added to this thread--- it's a fascinating subject.

in the mean time, here's a memento from a festival held in chicago to commemorate the decisive battle of sedan, held on the first days of september in 1870. it's made of aluminium and the disc has a diameter of 39mm, so it's rather large

[Wyomingguy]

That is a fascinating item. I did not realize the widespread appeal of the Franco-Prussian War here in the states. A very cool piece. 

This is another American photograph. The image is from St. Louis and depicts a sailor. I am guessing that this is a copy image of an original probably taken in Asia. The reverse has a notation that he was stationed at the German naval base in China in 1901. Would be curious to know about the medals. 

I have seen American Civil War cdv photographs copied later in the 19th century as larger cabinet cards. My suspicion is that they were made so that multiple family members could get copies.  

[Eric Stahlhut]

i'm glad you like the 1895 chicago badge (25th anniversary of sedan)--please note that i posted it on the 150th anniversary!

anyways, the sailor is sporting a 1901 china medal and a centenary medal, or kaiser-wilhelm-erinnerungsmedaille-zentenarmedaille, from 1897, to commemoratesthe 100th birthday of kaiser wilhelm #1.

p.s. i won't surprise me one little bit if a fellow forum member happens to come along and identify this fellow--never fails to blow my mind when that occurs

Edited September 2, 2020 by Eric Stahlhut

[Wyomingguy]

Thank you so much for the information on the sailor. Very much appreciate it.

The 1895 badge is very cool and your timing is impeccable.

Some years ago, I ran a program in Lancaster Pennsylvania on the tradition of frakturschriften. Most of our speakers had the same consensus that there had been a rich and very visible German culture in the United States that was effectively wiped away by the First World War. The biggest casualties were the German language books and newspapers that were wiped out and which in turn led to the demise of the German language in many communities. Not far from where I lived, the town of Bismark was renamed Quentin for Quentin Roosevelt (youngest son of Teddy Roosevelt). 

 

[Eric Stahlhut]

in seattle there was a building that housed and was owned by a german war veteran's society and it was very active from the 1890s right up until 1917, when sentiment rapidly turned against people of german descent--my grandfather once told a story of a mob attempting to break down the front doors while the members escaped through the rear of the building, carrying as much of value as they could. the building was set on fire and subsequently burnt down. (see the 'crossover appeal' link)

the interwar years were not so bad:

http://depts.washington.edu/heritage/Organizations/Clubs/gersoc.htm

 

 

here's something else that may interest you, even though it's in relic condition.

 it was struck to commemorate a fundraising event held in st. louis, missouri on sept. 3rd and 4th of 1914. the top has the colors of the triple alliance of germany, austria-hungary, and italy, with an imperial crown at the top and an american crest at the bottom. at the time, both the german and irish communities strongly urged neutrality--but once the u.s. entered the war in 1917, both communities suffered greatly as a result. it's interesting to note that the imperial crown has been covered up by lead (but not on the cross)--which most likely happened later on when the kaiser abdicated in 1918. crown removal is something that one can occasionally encounter on german badges and medals . 

Edited September 4, 2020 by Eric Stahlhut

[Wyomingguy]

very cool item. So with these German-American badges, did they copy existing European models and if so...how did they get them. 

[Eric Stahlhut]

 

i'd say that most were made in the states as there was no shortage of skilled labor to do that sort of thing. to me, they all possess a certain "american" style incorporated into the primary german elements. also, there was a lot of back-and-forth. people would make their fortune in the states and the family members would return to the old country. for example, my grandfather was sent to germany in 1919 at the age of 17 to begin an apprenticeship, he ended up enduring the terrible post-war situation-- things were pretty bad (disease, bad economy, violence), so instead of staying there once he became a journeyman jeweler/watchmaker he returned back to the states in the mid-20s 

another person that springs to mind is a certain frederick trump!

Edited September 4, 2020 by Eric Stahlhut

[Wyomingguy]

I ask as I have seen a fair number of fraternal society badges and they follow fairly similar patterns. These, with the iron cross seem very distinctive. Really appreciate your posting them. 

If I may ask, I would be curious as to what you think this is. It is a very tinny star with a Stuttgart makers mark on the reverse. The Bostonia around the image of the owl suggests an American origin. It came from an American ebay seller. I am wondering if it is an Austria-Hungarian friendship society from Boston?

This may not be the right spot to post but hoping you can help. 

[Eric Stahlhut]

please google Schlaraffia and all will be exlained!

[Wyomingguy]

You rock!!! Thanks so much!!!!!!!!

[BlackcowboyBS]

wow fascinating thread I love the story behind this! Thank you guys, very impressive. 

[Eric Stahlhut]

blackcowboybs, thank you

mr. wyoming, here's another item that has many elements that you have expressed an interest in (german veterans, freemasons, fraternal societies, german immigrants and culture before and at the turn of the last century, etc) and i hope you like it

 

fellow forum member ralph a has or had an example that is complete and in better condition:

https://gmic.co.uk/topic/10037-st-john39s-iron-cross/

p.s. my apologies, i just noticed that you have already viewed his example on a seperate thread 

 

Edited September 12, 2020 by Eric Stahlhut

[Wyomingguy]

I found this Commandery member's medal to be the most unusual that I have seen. Usually, they are Latin crosses but this one clearly is based on the Iron Cross. Youngtstown had a large German population (I found a statistic that noted as of 2019 that Ohio has the highest number of people who self-identified as being of German descent and that 10% of the present population of Youngstown saw themselves as being of Germanic ancestry). So the use of this form seems logical. Masonic Knights Templar badges run the gamut with little if any uniformity. You probably know already that the 20 is the number assigned to them in the order of their chartering by the Grand Commandery of Ohio. St. John is used frequently in Masonic regalia and it references either St. John the Baptist or St. John the Evangelist. 

It is a very cool item and truly have never seen one like this. Usually the Commandery badges were suspended with a simple loop from a top suspension bar. 

Thanks again for sharing.

 

 

Peter

 

 

[Wyomingguy]

This is my latest eBay find. A nice photograph of a former Austrian soldier in a great hat who probably immigrated to the states in the late 19th century. The photographer is C.O. Erickson from St. Paul Minnesota. I am curious if anyone has a thought on the badge on the wearer's right side. 

[Bayern]

Its very alike of Emperor Maximilian of Mexico Coat of Arms , perhaps the man served into the Austrian auxiliary contingent in Mexico between 1863 and 1867 , or his Father .

[Wyomingguy]

cool....thank you so much!!

[Eric Stahlhut]

the photograph is fantastic---here is the badge on his right breast--it's an imperial austrian veteran's badge-- this badge has been described as a cap badge but this foto begs to differ; most excellent! the rest of the medals on his left breast are also austrian. experts will identify them, hopefully

Edited October 7, 2020 by Eric Stahlhut

[Wyomingguy]

that is impressive...thank you  so much Eric. Were these privately sold or issued by a society or a group?

 

The photo is a great one and among the cleanest that I have seen. 

[Eric Stahlhut]

i don't know much about the details of this organization, but from the looks of the badge and what's written on it, i'm pretty sure they were somewhat of an "official issue"-- i'm sure more will be elaborated by our resident austro-hungarian experts. i was very excited to see your latest picture so i took a quick picture of the badge in question so that you can get a better view of it--it's a large badge

thank you for sharing this wonderful picture!

p.s. can you enlarge and post an image of his left breast in order to make it easier to identify the rest of the medals?

Edited October 7, 2020 by Eric Stahlhut