webr55 Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 (edited) In the German town of Hildesheim, there is a very good museum for Egyptian and other Ancient art, the "Roemer and Pelizaeus Museum". Now I went there recently and found - among all the mummies and sphinxes - a showcase with the decorations of one of the two benefactors the museum was named after: Wilhelm Pelizaeus is listed in the DOA 1908/09 as director of the railway company Keneh-Assuan, living in Cairo. He holds a Prussian Crown Order 3rd class, a Spanish Order of Isabella the Catholic (Commander grade), and a neck cross of the Turkish Osmanie Order. And here they are, well preserved, all three (sorry for the bad photo): (Below is the document for his honorary Dr. from the University of Göttingen.) Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 21, 2006 Share Posted May 21, 2006 No biographical details on him? It's a strange family name (I had never heard it before) but there were a quartet of them in the Orders Almanac and all in important jobs.That's quite an odd trio of Orders...he must have led an "Indiana Jones" sort of life out there building railways through wild deserts and picking up the odd treasures here and there. Those days are gone forever... but what exciting times it must have been before the Great War came along and changed everything forever! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted May 21, 2006 Author Share Posted May 21, 2006 (edited) Ah, the museum has some info on him. Born 1851 in Hildesheim, he went to Egypt first in 1869 to enter his uncle's company in Alexandria. For the next decades, he led various companies in Egypt (railway, electricity, water, co-founder of the National Bank of Egypt) and became quite wealthy. He also was continually interested in Egyptian history, financed excavations and so on. In 1909, he transferred his private collection back to Hildesheim, where the museum was opened two years later. In August 1914, when he was in Europe, the British government in Egypt declared him persona non grata and auctioned off all his belongings in Egypt. He was compensated for a small part of this in 1925. The University of Göttingen gave him the hon. Dr. in 1921. In 1930, Pelizaeus died in Hildesheim. Apart from the Hildesheim museum named after him, there is still a Pelizaeus asylum in Alexandria. Edited November 11, 2017 by webr55 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Interesting that there are the two rather high foreign decorations but only the PCO3 from Germany itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted May 23, 2006 Author Share Posted May 23, 2006 Interesting that there are the two rather high foreign decorations but only the PCO3 from Germany itself?Judging from the DOA1908/09, the PCO3 was quite standard for someone like him. 2nd cl would have been a General-equivalent already. Maybe a RAO4 would have been appropriate - that's what the average university professor got.But of course, other countries usually treat people better than their home state! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 The weird thing is: how did he get the Spanish Order of Isabella the Catholic while labouring almost 40 years in the Egyptian desert building railroads?Receiving an award from the then-supreme political leader of the Muslim world and an award named for the Queen who expelled the Moors from Iberia the same year she provided the travel expenses for that guy they named Columbus, Ohio after is also ironic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Haynes Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 The Spanish order was passed out fairly freely to esteemed European Catholics, without much regard to underlying logic. We make, I think, a mistake, to introduce any assumption of too much "system" into the "honors system". Then or now.He was a (greater) German Catholic, working in Egypt, and "lifting" anything that wasn't firmly affixed (and some things that were), and repatriating them to the Fatherland. 'Nuff said?Maybe he sent some plunder onto Spain as well? These are, after all, the Days Before eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 Fear not, there is a solution to every riddle!I dug a little deeper: Wilhelm Pelizaeus was, for twenty years, the Spanish consul in Egypt! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 That makes completely sense to me! I have also a bar with the Spanish Order of Isabela la Cat?lica... also of a German, Herr Kunstmann, Consul for Spain (I don't where, though!).Ciao,Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Wow Lets see a pic of the complete bar please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webr55 Posted May 24, 2006 Author Share Posted May 24, 2006 Claudio, that's a really nice one, I remember it from WAF. But strange, Kunstmann got only the Knight's Cross, while Pelizaeus made it to Commander grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Maybe Pelizaeus was "Generalkonsul" and Kunstmann only "Konsul"...Here's the pic of my medal bar, showing it all:Ciao,Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerd Becker Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Thanks, Claudio. Awesome bar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derGeneral Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Thats really one of the greatest medal bars I've ever seen ! Only Fantastic... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eitze Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 WOWWith the "Star of Brabant" - more than rare greetings eitze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Hi Claudio-- since you got that bar from the Seymour collection I have the 1917 "Hofkalendar"on page 507 (I will copy it for you and attach scan later)A. Kunstmann, since 1904 Consul for Spain at Swinem?nde for the region of Swinem?nde and the islands of Usedom and Wollin. Research never stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David M Posted May 24, 2006 Share Posted May 24, 2006 Beautriful bar, the little training I have had in this and the WAF-forum make me recognize all but the one right to the japanese order...is it a redcross award?DavidWOWWith the "Star of Brabant" - more than rare greetings eitze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudio Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 @ David: it's a Spanisch Red Cross Merit Order, 2nd class.@ Rick: Thanks for the information. It's like a puzzle... more pieces are getting together. Who knows? Maybe I will be able to recuperate some other stuff of him on the market in the next years...Ciao,Claudio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Claudio: here you go. The Spanish consuls started at the bottom of the left page and ran to Kunstmann as the very last person in the last line on the right hand page:[attachmentid=40754] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stogieman Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Nice to see this bar again Claudio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 Wow, that really is a spectacular bar, thanks for showing it. One of my ancestors was German consul in Madrid and, unfortunately, his spange has been lost. However, I have his ceremonial dagger, which was a gift of the Spanish government, and which was made at the famous blade-making centre of Toledo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris B. Posted May 27, 2006 Share Posted May 27, 2006 (edited) That's pretty neat Vince! Do you have any photos of this Gentleman? If you know which orden he received, you could try to reconstruct it in full or in part. Framed and under glass with a nice plaque it would make a great display and you'd be saving a little (albeit) reconstructed, family history. Cheers, Chris B. Edited May 27, 2006 by Chris B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtwinVince Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 You're right, Chris, that would make a great display, however I just spent a bunch of money reconstructing my great-grandfather's spange, so it'll have to wait. Unfortunately I don't have a photo of him, as he was an uncle of my grandmother's. I have no idea how the dagger survived, as it was found amongst my grandfather's relics after he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I had no idea this thread has been sleeping in the back pages for so long. Since it first was posted, I've got the Lippe Detmold House Order rolls-- I'll post you Kunstmann's entry when I find it, Claudio. Will also check the HORRID Schaumburrg-Lippe one for that as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rick Research Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Aha! Arthur Kunstmann, Konsul und Reeder, Stettin, born Swinem?nde 29 December 1871 received LDH4a #651 on9 November 1918! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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