BlackcowboyBS

Gentleman, I would like to present this amazing oil painting, showing the Chancler of Lippe Karl-Ludwig Freiherr von Biedenweg, proudly presenting his 1st class of the Order Henry the Lion and the commanders cross of Lippe. I have never seen a painting showing a bearer of the 1.st class of the order from Brunswick. Pretty amazing! I hope you like it too. Copyright of the Photo: Lippisches Landesmuseum Detmold / Annika Drewes

No, it can't be him! The General on this photo seems to wear the commanders cross 2nd class of the HdL from Brunswick. In the lists I can't find a von Massow in the commanders cross section. So it must be another guy.

it is the large version, text below the photo says: British golden medal for battles ... awarded to 40 senior officers of the KGL. ... the photo is 3/4 size of the original medal.

In an old German book on the History of the Kings German Legion, I did found this photo, it shows the neck worn version of this medal.

Bonjour Jérôme, mercie beaucoup for your information, quite intersting what you are writting. Yes the CDV was quiete thick, about 1 mm. Very intersing is your link, quite impressive what you can find in the internet nowadays. Yes a veteran of 1815 would be at least 81 / 82 years old in 1881, when the photographer opened his shop in Jersey City. So I guess your conclusion that this is a photo of a photo seems to be correct. I can live with this, as I am not collecting photos but just buying them to get photos for my upcoming book.

Hey Folks, how do you like this photo of an elder gentleman showing just a crown order 4th class on his chest, but for sure he looks as proud as one could be. Taken in Düsseldorf.

Hey GreyC, the fold on the collar tells you that he is from the artillery. No the braiding is a style that the uniforms of the black troops of duke Friedrich Wilhelm, when he marched to the north sea in 1809.

For my library I recently acquired a book on the Kings German Legion printed 1906. As a nice surprise I did found this photo between the pages of the book. It shows a private from the artillery regiment 46 in an old polrock. I am not sure if the seller was aware of this photo, but I like it. Sadly the guy doesn't show any decorations, but photos of an artillery man are pretty rare, so I thought you may like it too. Have a nice Saint Nicholas day PS: photo must have been taken before 1886.

No, these pieces don't belong to me! I have taken this photo from the discussion on the SDA Forum, where we had the same topic!

He was the son of an officer from the Husars of HR 17 in Brunswick, I guess that the medal bar belongs to his father who put it on the uniform to get the photo done by a photographer in Brunswick, taken 1907. So he was no prince, just the young son of an higher officer in the husar regiment 17. That what I meant with my previous post, not every young boy in an uniform was a noble prince, middle and upper class did photos like this too.

True, in their well sorted library you can also find my books on the duchy of Brunswick. Thats a fact that I am pretty proud of.

One has to understand, that the military in imperial Germany at that time was highly appreciated and had the highest reputation. Carl Zuckermayr once stated: Evolution begins with a private, but mankind starts at lieutenant. It was pretty common that people with more income the so called middle and upper class went to a photographer and put their young boys in uniforms to take photos of them in a uniform. Good photographers allways had some uniforms to choose from for their customers. Here is another example.

I am deeply impressed by the knowledge shown in this thread. Great thanks I have learned a lot!

Hi Utgardloki, I allways thought, that all Germans are called Piefkes by the Austrians, so this isn't correct? How do you call the Bavarians then, if they ain't Piefkes?

Hello, we had the same discussion at the SDA Forum, the solution is: the KO is a little bit larger than the ROA, so he wears both decorations as 2nd class. As Komtur said, he wasn't awarded the 1st class of the KO.

you will find many pieces of such kriegervereins medals in the next auction from kuenker. Part 6 of the Groch collection.

To be honest, I have never heard, that the RAO should be worn on top of the Kronenorden. To my understanding these two were absolutely identicly regarding their status. But as I am not deep into prussian orders I might be wrong. Would be interesting to learn the thoughts of our prussian specialists here.

@1812 Overture interessting! Your photo is much clearer than mine. Thx for showing

I was able to acquire this photo recently. At first I thought that the good man would wear a commander cross of the Guelphic Order, but on closer inspection, it turned out to be a commanders cross 2nd class of the Duke of Saxony Ernestine House Order. Since the man carries the RK of Brunswick at his medal bar, as well as the RAO, KO and Centenary medal, the photo is nevertheless in good hands with me. Through my research for the book about the orders and decorations of the Kingdom of Hannover I could identify the up to now unknown priest. It is the protestant military pastor Dr. phil Heinrich Rocholl, who lived from September 20, 1845 to February 28, 1829. He worked in Colmar, Cologne and last in Hanover, where he was the priest responsible for the X. Army Corps. As it was still completely normal at that time, Protestant pastors were able to carry within themselves not only Christian charity but also love for their fatherland. Dr. Rocholl was conservative, loyal to the emperor and a patriot. On March 3, 1914, Dr. Rocholl was retired at his own request with a pension. After his retirement, he was awarded the Order of the Crown, 2nd class. During the First World War and beyond, he was a writer and published a total of 19 books. PS: The Knight's Cross 1st class HdL was awarded to Dr. Rocholl in 1896.

Well Chris, if you want to go more expensive you can go with the kleindekorationen (little decorations) of the prussian black eagle, the Grandcross of the red eagle, the first class of the crown order or the order of the prussian crown. all these kleindekorationen were worn by Wilhelm II. on his Überrock.

I am getting a virus warning, if I try to open this page! You may want to check this link?

My first thought was the Order of Merit of the Bavarian Crown, but then I counted the arms of his commanders cross and then I thought: Nope, six arms instead of 8. Then I thought maybe the Order of Saint Joseph but the crown is missing! But this would fit with Italy. The second one then might be the Order of Saint Januarius. But this is a pretty wild guess!

Well this is a very interesting topic! I hope to find out more, once I started digging into the hannoverian archives in Hannover and the private archive of the royal family in Pattensen. Bad thing, that Corona prevents me from starting. All I can tell you right now is, that the statutes of the Guelphic Order were changed six times during their valid existance. In the change of 1848 the bow was instituted and given to the seven people Klenau mentioned in his book. The dates you find in his book are the dates when these seven people got their knights cross, all of them got their bows in 1848! So the bow seems to be connected to the revolutionary events that took part in 1848 in Germany and Europe. Riefkugel got his knightscross for La Haye Sainte but the bow for something in 1848. If a person was awarded with the bow, he was permitted to carry this bow to a higher class if awarded, this happened to 2 persons. As said, as soon as I discover more on this or any other interesting topics, I might tell a little bit of it here, the whole story then in my book! But great question and Thanks for asking. PS: the original text of the statue was never changed, if I am talking about changes, it has to be seen as supplements, addendums or specifications

funny thing! Well I do have some old cdv's where veterans and soldiers wear their medalbars. Sometime the medals are sorted in a wrong way or the backside is shown to the front. Why ever that happend, but the crown downwards is more a political statement ? (no just kidding) I bet that this poor NCO was mad as hell, when he spotted his error on the photo! Thanks for showing it to us.